Motivation?

[DJA]

To be honest I have been thinking about the actual knife work. On all the victims except for Stride, he stabbed the abdomen. Not just cut it open, he stabbed it. On Eddowes death pic you can actually see where he stabbed. I reckon he did that first after the throat out of frenzy or lust. The stab wounds to Polly N's vagina point to lust. Maybe not too clevr after all.

Your observation regarding a stab wound to her abdomen confuses me.

Do you refer to abdomen or pelvis?

Where exactly is this stab wound?

Have the 'photo up on a 120" screen.

What was done in less than 14 minutes with no light was extraordinary.

The complete lack of blood spray indicates she was not killed on the spot,ruling out frenzy and lust.

Doubt the "eyework" was done with the same utensil without light.Most likely done indoors, where she was probably strangled, using a small scalpel.

The exploratory work on her inguinal lymph nodes is largely overlooked.



All the Best,

Dave.

[miakaal4]

But if we're not careful, that kind of thinking can lead us to view the Ripper as some kind of super sleuth.
If you know anything about the Yorkshire Ripper, there might be a more likely parallel between these two killers than has been realized.
Peter Sutcliffe was no super sleuth, he didn't intentionally disguise himself, thats more Hollywood than real life. He was not too smart, and not strong either, though he was lucky, he was a wimp, and one detective thought he looked effeminate.

To be honest I have been thinking about the actual knife work. On all the victims except for Stride, he stabbed the abdomen. Not just cut it open, he stabbed it. On Eddowes death pic you can actually see where he stabbed. I reckon he did that first after the throat out of frenzy or lust. The stab wounds to Polly N's vagina point to lust. Maybe not too clevr after all.

[Wickerman]

It could be a terrible mistake to assume the killer was an idiot, or a half hysterical lunatic. If we assume he has average intelligence then wouldn't he plan somewhat before the crime? Decide on an area to use, possible bolt holes or escape routes. Would he not wear clothes that would either blend in or put him beyond bobby on the beat suspicion? If I were him, I would dress and look completely different every time. So witness statements look confused. I think he was a clever bastard. Probably very clever. That's why he ain't been buckled.

But if we're not careful, that kind of thinking can lead us to view the Ripper as some kind of super sleuth.
If you know anything about the Yorkshire Ripper, there might be a more likely parallel between these two killers than has been realized.
Peter Sutcliffe was no super sleuth, he didn't intentionally disguise himself, thats more Hollywood than real life. He was not too smart, and not strong either, though he was lucky, he was a wimp, and one detective thought he looked effeminate.

[Michael W Richards]

Could Israel be fabricated? Made up? If so , why??

We know that an Israel Schwartz connection to the club does come up in later history, so Israel as a fabrication is unlikely.

[erobitha]

It could be a terrible mistake to assume the killer was an idiot, or a half hysterical lunatic. If we assume he has average intelligence then wouldn't he plan somewhat before the crime? Decide on an area to use, possible bolt holes or escape routes. Would he not wear clothes that would either blend in or put him beyond bobby on the beat suspicion? If I were him, I would dress and look completely different every time. So witness statements look confused. I think he was a clever bastard. Probably very clever. That's why he ain't been buckled.

Maybe even having a hat and coat selection to alternate his clothing? If I was an organised serial killer I'd be content that would be enough to put the police off. A deranged butcher walking around with a bloody apron might be a little obvious to these street smart women. But then we are told he was disoragnised by FBI profilers because he killed most of his victims on the street with high risk of being caught. Or he trusted the prostitutes themselves would know where would be discreet and let them lead the way, giving them that extra level of trust.

[miakaal4]

It could be a terrible mistake to assume the killer was an idiot, or a half hysterical lunatic. If we assume he has average intelligence then wouldn't he plan somewhat before the crime? Decide on an area to use, possible bolt holes or escape routes. Would he not wear clothes that would either blend in or put him beyond bobby on the beat suspicion? If I were him, I would dress and look completely different every time. So witness statements look confused. I think he was a clever bastard. Probably very clever. That's why he ain't been buckled.

[Wickerman]

"With a view of testing the accuracy and honesty of Packer's testimony, the detectives obtained an order to view the body of the woman murdered in Mitre square, and took Packer to see it, leaving him under the impression that they were taking him to see the Berner street victim. On seeing the body he at once declared that it was not the woman for whom the grapes had been bought, and not a bit like her....
"This afternoon Matthew Packer, the fruiterer, of 44 Berner street, referred to in the above narrative, visited the mortuary of St. George's in the East, and identified the body of Elizabeth Stride as that of the woman for whom the grapes were purchased on the night of the murder"

Yes, I think Scott is meaning Packer, but whether the two detectives really tried to trick him, as if he wouldn't know the difference between the St. George Mortuary and Golden Lane in the City, is possibly open to debate.

[drstrange169]

The problem is, we only have Le Grand's word that he did this. How far should we trust Le Grand's word?

[Joshua Rogan]

"With a view of testing the accuracy and honesty of Packer's testimony, the detectives obtained an order to view the body of the woman murdered in Mitre square, and took Packer to see it, leaving him under the impression that they were taking him to see the Berner street victim. On seeing the body he at once declared that it was not the woman for whom the grapes had been bought, and not a bit like her....
"This afternoon Matthew Packer, the fruiterer, of 44 Berner street, referred to in the above narrative, visited the mortuary of St. George's in the East, and identified the body of Elizabeth Stride as that of the woman for whom the grapes were purchased on the night of the murder"

[Abby Normal]

I thought one of the witnesses from that night did view the bodies of Stride and Eddowes. I can't remember which.

interesting. ive never heard if this before. wonder why a witness would be taken to see both. would be interesting to know who it was, and why.

[Scott Nelson]

You didn't provide a source for that fictitious exchange.
Schwartz was not shown two different corpse's.

I thought one of the witnesses from that night did view the bodies of Stride and Eddowes. I can't remember which.

[Abby Normal]

I like drinking beer so I drank some last night. Didn't really need any other reason.

c.d.

bingo cd. and so did i btw and some bourbon

[Abby Normal]

Interesting topic, motivation. Tells us lots if we can find truth. I know many sneer at the thought of the Free Mason involvement, so leaving that aside, has anyone got any ideas about what JtR was trying to do or say when it comes to the mutilations? I mean with Nichols it's possible to argue it was a mindless frenzy. But as we move up to Kelly there seems to be a definite increase in knife work and a motivation behind it. Why take the uterus? Why were Kelly's organs and body parts placed in the shape of a cross, or at compass points?

lol. i do beleive thats a loaded question. but his motivation was probably the same as other serial killers. he enjoyed it.

[c.d.]

I like drinking beer so I drank some last night. Didn't really need any other reason.

c.d.

[Wickerman]

Same as for Matthew Packer.

After viewing both, Schwartz successfully identified the first as the woman he had seen on Berner St.

"To be honest, we doubts as to the truthfulness of your story, but you've successfully identified the woman found dead on Berner street last night", said the attending police constable.
"I was not codding, dear bobby", replied a sardonic Israel Schwartz, with rolling eyes.
"I remember her well", he continued, "she's the one that squealed a bit".

You didn't provide a source for that fictitious exchange.
Schwartz was not shown two different corpse's.