Motivation?

[miakaal4]

Yes, does it not?

Well, maybe it is not the decisive clue, I admit that. But I think it is a vital one nevertheless. All this talk about how the Ripper must have hated women/prostitutes is getting a bit tedious. If he had actually been about destroying bodies, it would have been a very good point, but a man who seemingly uses millimeter precision to avoid to harm the eyes? A man who extracts all the organs from inside a woman without shredding any of them? A man who uses nice circular cuts to take off the breasts? Who cuts a length of colon and neatly stretches it out parallel to the body of the woman it came from?

When I see a mechanic taking a Porsche apart in little bits, distributing them over the garage floor, I don´t assume he does so on account of hating sports cars.

I agree. The mechanic removes parts to get to the bits he wants, exactly the same here, and the placing of the "bits in the way" was not maniacal or angry. It was practical.

[John Wheat]

Possible of course John

But let me ask you, if one got a venereal disease, will he blame the girl, or blame himself for contacting her? and if she has such a disease, is he going to eat her Kidney? was bury in such an advanced stage of the disease that he felt his days are finishing and he will carry the revenge on every prositute he can get his hands on?!


I find this whole venereal disease argument not convincing, but who knows,


The Baron

Bury really doesn't strike me as someone who would blame himself for anything. And although he did marry Ellen its important to note the fact that he murdered her too.

[Fisherman]

So I reckoned, Harry!

[Harry D]

Yes, does it not?

I think most of the male population like women but struggle to understand them.

That was the joke there.

[Abby Normal]

Actually Abby I realy don't have something specific in mind, but if I have to put it somehow:

Great hatred of Prostitutes.

The way he killed them, mutilated them and show them.

Buy the way, eating the Kidney, you can interpret it as Cannibalism, which is possible of course, but there is another more appropriate meaning to it in this case,

hatred!


In history, I've read about something similar, when someone hates someone else very much, and managed to kill him, he may eat his liver or Kidney to satisfy his hatred and deep rancour, hence the From Hell letter.



The Baron

hatred? nah.
more like twisted love.

[Fisherman]

Narrows it down!

Yes, does it not?

Well, maybe it is not the decisive clue, I admit that. But I think it is a vital one nevertheless. All this talk about how the Ripper must have hated women/prostitutes is getting a bit tedious. If he had actually been about destroying bodies, it would have been a very good point, but a man who seemingly uses millimeter precision to avoid to harm the eyes? A man who extracts all the organs from inside a woman without shredding any of them? A man who uses nice circular cuts to take off the breasts? Who cuts a length of colon and neatly stretches it out parallel to the body of the woman it came from?

When I see a mechanic taking a Porsche apart in little bits, distributing them over the garage floor, I don´t assume he does so on account of hating sports cars.

[Harry D]

I think he liked them but found them hard to understand.

Narrows it down!

[Fisherman]

That makes me feel, maybe Bury is not the right man, because, if he hates Prostitutes that much, why to marry one of them at first place.



The Baron

When you least expect it! Like a bolt of lightning from a clear blue sky! Bravo!

Then again, I don´t think the Ripper necessarily hated prostitutes - or women, on the whole.

I think he liked them but found them hard to understand.

If that helps?

[Fisherman]

Why don't you let him answer for himself Fish

I cannot see how I would in any way have obstructed Abby to answer for himself. Nor can I see why I would not be allowed to take part in an exchange out here. I was under the impression that these boards are public...?

You couldn't resist the need to assist him

You want to be his guardian

You are so afraid

And if it bleeds...




The Baron

I could not resist to point out how it is ridiculous to speak of a "silly simplification" when it comes to the cutting the Ripper did. I don´t think it was silly to himself, and it would seem that most of those knowledgeable about things like piquerism agree with me.

I don´t think Abby is in need of a guardian, and if he was, he would have to look elsewhere for such a person.

You, on the other hand, could well do with a guardian. Preferably somebody who can say Sssssch! really loud. A simple enough task but very useful.

Am I afraid? Yes, sometimes I am. But so far, it has never had anything to do with ripperology.

[Michael W Richards]

Okay, so on 3 of the murders he attacked the uterus directly, on the first attack he went for the lower abdomen with downward thrusts, so probably going for the uterus again. So why? It is exclusively a female organ, was it jealousy? The other idea I had was regarding the murder in Mitre Square. Parts of Cate were throw over the shoulders or moved aside. I think in that case he may have attacked the face first, needing to be up close to see, if the gore was already there he would be kneeling very close. That leads to all sorts of more questions. Why cut the face? Unless it was a sign or a message?

I think in the murders of Polly and Annie that was a primary characteristic...he sought uteri. A partial one in Mitre Square makes that murder another possibility for the same man, but there are other features in this murder that are not seen in prior murders. And most were avoidable to an experienced mutilator...which Annies killer seems to have been,... and most were unnecessary.

I think you struck upon another interesting feature here..the facial cuts. Unnecessary. Avoidable.

The first 2 Canonicals were killed because they were women alone at night, and the actions taken suggest the killer was preoccupied with specific female organs. Now try and fit that around Liz Strides murder, or Mary Kellys. Rhetorical. There is no evidence whatsoever in the cases of Liz Stride and Mary Kelly that the killer sought specific female organs.

[Harry D]

Ah, ok, I'm sorry. I thought you had argued for Joseph Levy at some point in the past.

I think you mean Jacob Levy? Yes.

In terms of Jewish suspects, I still think Jacob is an interesting one.

[Wickerman]

I've flirted with a few suspects, and I think there's an argument to be made for a Jewish one.
Nowadays, I don't really have a horse in the race.
If you put a gun to my head, I'd plump for William Bury, simply for the law of averages.
However, I think the Ripper/Thames Torso link is an interesting theory that demands further research.

Ah, ok, I'm sorry. I thought you had argued for Joseph Levy at some point in the past.

[Takod]

Okay, so on 3 of the murders he attacked the uterus directly, on the first attack he went for the lower abdomen with downward thrusts, so probably going for the uterus again. So why? It is exclusively a female organ, was it jealousy? The other idea I had was regarding the murder in Mitre Square. Parts of Cate were throw over the shoulders or moved aside. I think in that case he may have attacked the face first, needing to be up close to see, if the gore was already there he would be kneeling very close. That leads to all sorts of more questions. Why cut the face? Unless it was a sign or a message?

Regarding cutting the face, there's a whimsical and almost-playful element to postmortem serial killers. I would imagine that once the victims were successfully subdued and their throat was cut he would move around, especially in an open space like Mitre Square. As far as I can tell, it's less a case of "why cut the face?" and more a case of "why not dash the face with the knife a bit to make it look more right?"

Keep in mind that the eyes adapt to darkness, and this is not often talked about, so darkness becomes almost relative when we're thinking about what the killer in this case can and can not see.

Regarding the uterus, for the first killing [canonical] some doubt can be cast as to whether or not a uterus was purloined, and in the fifth of the canon it rested alongside the kidneys and one breast, which were found supporting, or propping up the disfigured head of the victim. In that case, the heart was missing.

I think it's less likely to be jealousy and more likely to be a chewy snack or something. I don't think jealousy provides the cause to commit such crimes as Jack the Ripper committed, it's more likely to be resentment that bubbles under the surface. Jealousy is typically an outburst that is solved with a spree or a single murder. It is more definite and accusatory in its nature.

[miakaal4]

Okay, so on 3 of the murders he attacked the uterus directly, on the first attack he went for the lower abdomen with downward thrusts, so probably going for the uterus again. So why? It is exclusively a female organ, was it jealousy? The other idea I had was regarding the murder in Mitre Square. Parts of Cate were throw over the shoulders or moved aside. I think in that case he may have attacked the face first, needing to be up close to see, if the gore was already there he would be kneeling very close. That leads to all sorts of more questions. Why cut the face? Unless it was a sign or a message?

[Takod]

But let me ask you, if one got a venereal disease, will he blame the girl, or blame himself for contacting her? and if she has such a disease, is he going to eat her Kidney? was bury in such an advanced stage of the disease that he felt his days are finishing and he will carry the revenge on every prositute he can get his hands on?!

It depends wholly upon his development as a person. If there is ample repression there already and we throw in some social defects to boot, we might end up with a circumstance wherein vengeance upon the allures that once took him in is acted upon.