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That is possible Corey. Hope your vaca is good. The problem I have with that model is what would precipitate the M1 event. Dave
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We are all born cute as a button and dumb as rocks. We grow out of cute fast! -
Hello Dave,
so far so good. I will post some photos on my Vacation thread if you like once I'm home.
Regarding the models, both are equally possible. However, what if the killer didn't harbor the need to mutilate just yet with Tabram and wouldn't have that response UNTIL he killed Nichols, which would have sparked this need you describe? Just food for thoughtWashington Irving:
"To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "
Stratford-on-AvonComment
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Surely. That will be the closest I get to a vacation for some time. DaveWe are all born cute as a button and dumb as rocks. We grow out of cute fast!Comment
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Corey, I think the trophy concept stemmed from the M1 event and fantasy. DaveWe are all born cute as a button and dumb as rocks. We grow out of cute fast!Comment
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Hello Dave,
I agree. However I believe the next question would be what exactly could have sparked the need or rather want to produce trohpy items from the victims and why he did so.Washington Irving:
"To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "
Stratford-on-AvonComment
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Which is funny, because I disagree. I don't think it's about the killing, I think it's about the mutilation. Nichols, he scrabbles around trying to get into the abdomen, but doesn't have enough time. Chapman, he succeeds, and successfully locating the uterus (I think) through the vaginal canal. Stride is a botch. He succeeds in killing her but nothing more. Eddowes, he gets in takes the uterus like pro, and for good measure grabs a kidney. But he has to mutilate her face first.
He kills Nichols literally three times over, and lingers over none of it. In fact he very well may have panicked when the shallow throat cut, which would have killed her in about 30 seconds, didn't instantly render her dead and almost saws her head off on the second throat wound. I don't think he dislikes killing, I just dont think it's his focus.
If killing was the point, why was killing Stride not enough? Even if he had progressed to also wanting to mutilate, killing would still have been the main goal. Killing Stride should have been a Happy Meal for him, clearly not ideal, but it takes the edge off. If killing was the point, he would have gone home. Maybe not for long, maybe wait a day or two and go back out, but emotional balance would have been restored to a point. Instead he makes the somewhat insane decision to immediately go looking for someone else. So just ending someones life is not the motivating factor. If it was, Stride should have sufficed, at least temporarily.The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.Comment
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Hello Corey, I suppose that the relief from the kill was fading and he was using them as a mechanism for prolonging the relief the M1 event provided.
If this model is correct it explains the liquifaction of M2 triggering M3 because the restraint he was using ( the trophy) had been snatched away from him. DaveWe are all born cute as a button and dumb as rocks. We grow out of cute fast!Comment
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Hello Errata,
I don't believe that post was a response to mine because if it is I am very confused?Washington Irving:
"To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "
Stratford-on-AvonComment
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Errata I think the difference between us is I do not see a static relationship to the kill. I believe all events post M1 are attempts at recapturing how M1 made him feel. I believe this is the primary motivation for experimentations. DaveWe are all born cute as a button and dumb as rocks. We grow out of cute fast!Comment
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I add the caveat that M5 is the product of a further conflation between violence and pleasure. The M4 event is transitional in that it spawns a level of violence and exploration not seen before. Sequence timing again leads me to believe it was a trophy triggered event. DaveWe are all born cute as a button and dumb as rocks. We grow out of cute fast!Comment
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Hi Errata!
You write:
"The triangular flaps were also likely edge work, but very careful."
Most of those who see the facial cuts to Eddowes as meticulous, detailed work, ground this wiew on - to some extent - the nicks to the eyelids, but mainly to the the inverted V:s. I think this is wrong. I believe that it is nothing but collateral damage, originating from a first, failed attempt to cut Eddowes´ nose away.
This was something I learnt from Jon Smythe, writing under the name "Wickerman". If you look up the thread "The two upside down V:s" under Eddowes, and then read post 69, you will see what I mean!
The best,
FishermanComment
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Here is Fisherman's link. Thanks Fisherman! Dave
We are all born cute as a button and dumb as rocks. We grow out of cute fast!Comment
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Ah, technical assistance - thanks, Dave!
The best,
FishermanComment
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right
Hello Fish.
"Most of those who see the facial cuts to Eddowes as meticulous, detailed work, ground this wiew on - to some extent - the nicks to the eyelids, but mainly to the the inverted V:s. I think this is wrong. I believe that it is nothing but collateral damage, originating from a first, failed attempt to cut Eddowes´ nose away."
Right you are! Notice how that, after he failed, he tried yet again and succeeded. This indicates to me just how important the nose removal was.
I think too, that, once this fact is grasped, a key to understanding Kate's death and the motive behind it can be grasped.
Cheers.
LCComment
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Lynn Cates:
"This indicates to me just how important the nose removal was.
I think too, that, once this fact is grasped, a key to understanding Kate's death and the motive behind it can be grasped."
Ugh, Lynn - the "f"-word!
Myself, I do not see it as a proven fact that he really needed to remove the nose. It is a protruding part, and if you make a quick decision that you would like to cut something away from a face, the nose would be a very obvious choice. Next up would be the ears, I´d say, and we know for a fact that a piece of Cates ear was cut off. But I have a feeling that you do not attach the same weight to that, as you do to the nose...?
Speaking venearal disease, are we?
The best,
FishermanComment
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