JtR's Ideal Victim Type

[The Good Michael]

So, no botched efforts, no cancellations?

You kidding me? Hutchinson had the brains to fool all of Scotland Yard from shoddy little lodgings regarding the Kelly case, and he evaded all pursuers in a fashion that would have put Moriarity to shame in all teh other killings. How could George botch anything?

Mike

[Fisherman]

Corey:

"I agree with Mr.Candlebridges conclusion that the murders were premeditated. I believe he set out with murder on his mind and purposly picked the days to kill. Of coarse I do believe him to be an oppertunist, but I believe he set out to kill, and the days he set out to kill, he did."

So, no botched efforts, no cancellations?

The best,
Fisherman

[corey123]

I agree with Mr.Candlebridges conclusion that the murders were premeditated. I believe he set out with murder on his mind and purposly picked the days to kill. Of coarse I do believe him to be an oppertunist, but I believe he set out to kill, and the days he set out to kill, he did.

[Fisherman]

Mr Candlebridge writes:

"There must have been some pre-planning involved..."

If so, to what extent does it surpass putting your knife in your pocket and bringing your urge along?
Polly Nichols was subdued and slain on the sidewalk of Buckīs Row, no visible precaution taken to obscure the deed. What sort of planning was involved in that case? In what way do we know that calculation entered the Ripperīs mind before he cut?
"An opportunist with a motive", as you describe it, may well be the best we can do when painting Jackīs picture.

The best,
Fisherman

[Garza]

on the issue of Jack's intelligence...

I think it depends largely how much knowledge the victims/prostitutes had about police beats and their times. If they had a good knowledge of times and could judge their sessions with clients accordingly then there really isn't a lot of need to ascribe a great deal of intelligence to Jack. It seems his job was to chat them up and slice them up - end of story. He certainly didn't make much of an attempt not to be seen and the GSG wasn't exactly Shakespearian in quality either. Appart from him having some medical knowledge (maybe) and our 21C knowledge of serial killers having above average IQ - there isn't a lot to point to a super smart offender. I'm happy to be conviced of the opposite if someone is wishing to point out why.

I agree that Jack wasn't a super genius.

I think he had higher than average intelligence and was able to weigh up his odds effectively.

He positioned his kills close to exits for quick escape/to hear people intruding (exluding kelly).

He killed his victims in a efficient, quick, cold and quiet manner.

Pretty much an organised serial killer imo.

[Mr. Candlebridge]

I just see JtR as an opportunist with a motive. There must have been some pre-planning involved...and since I am assuming that the prostitutes had some staked territory and some regular circuits, the murderer could probably make a construct of a "safe" plan. A local could easily know the shadowy spots and escapes, and a commuter would have to have some time on his hands.
It is hard for me to say if there was a particular preference of victim...other than the commonality of their occupation.

[Raoul's Obsession]

Having thought about this a little more deeply I'll put forward what I think are the aspects of the case requiring a deal of intelligence.

1. Choice of prostitutes as a victim class. While plenty have done it since Jack I can't think of too many before him. Did offer him a degree of safety.

2. Ability to convince women (even at the hight of the ripper scare) that he was safe enough to accompany down a dark alley way (while also concealing his weapon)

3. Ability to subdue and kill victim quickly and quietly with minimal sound and minimal blood spraying onto himself.

4. Decent knowledge of escape routes

I'm sure there are probably a few more as well.

Rubyretro - I take your point about the GSG - that debate about that goes on and on and I thought I'd put it in there for the believers. As for your first quote - I think you are right in saying that practice makes perfect and certainly Jack got 'better' as he went. But at the same time, even stupid people learn and I don't think that implies that he was smart from the beginning. On the surface of it, to me at least, I would say that he wasn't the cognitively challenged individual that some here have suggested but I wouldn't go as far as to suggest that the guy was a genius either.

[Rubyretro]

It seems his job was to chat them up and slice them up - end of story. He certainly didn't make much of an attempt not to be seen and the GSG wasn't exactly Shakespearian in quality either. Appart from him having some medical knowledge (maybe) and our 21C knowledge of serial killers having above average IQ - there isn't a lot to point to a super smart offender. I'm happy to be conviced of the opposite if someone is wishing to point out why.

[/QUOTE]

I'm only just reading Bob Hinton's book (I ordered it, got it sent to my Mum's
to send on to France, and it got passed around all my Family in England -who were glued to it- before it got to Me !). There is a quote which sticks in my mind : something along the lines of a top golfer hitting a fab shot, and a reporter later saying ' the last shot was really lucky !' and the golfer replying 'yes, and the more I practise, the luckier I get !'. I think that sums
Jack up pretty well.

I think that he made sure/was lucky that he wasn't seen, and the more so as time went on.

I am not sure that he even wrote the GSG (who would waste time, in a hurry,in the pitch black, with a bit of chalk ? -I don't think so - particularly if you weren't a very fast, confident, writer..? ).
Opinions might vary as to what it actually read (no photo), how long it was there, and what the meaning was. I DO think that he knew that it was there
though, or at least knew that the inhabitants of the building were mainly Jewish, and he threw the apron bit there on purpose, to stir up even more trouble for the Jewish Community.

I think that, on balance, he had a high IQ.

[Raoul's Obsession]

on the issue of Jack's intelligence...

I think it depends largely how much knowledge the victims/prostitutes had about police beats and their times. If they had a good knowledge of times and could judge their sessions with clients accordingly then there really isn't a lot of need to ascribe a great deal of intelligence to Jack. It seems his job was to chat them up and slice them up - end of story. He certainly didn't make much of an attempt not to be seen and the GSG wasn't exactly Shakespearian in quality either. Appart from him having some medical knowledge (maybe) and our 21C knowledge of serial killers having above average IQ - there isn't a lot to point to a super smart offender. I'm happy to be conviced of the opposite if someone is wishing to point out why.

[corey123]

Hello Errata,

There isn't one. A person with a boarderline to low intellegence couldn't commit the crimes of Jack the Ripper.

Nevertheless, I would love to hear this argument. It is always good to keep an open mind, no matter my opinion.

[Errata]

Also you are right again, Stride was the slip up and if Jack the Ripper was of High to superior intellegence I don't believe that would have happened. Nor do I believe Eddowes would have been killed.
Yours truly

Remind me to someday tell you about the argument that can be made for Jack the Ripper being a cognitively latent or mentally retarded man.

[Errata]

John Nash of A Beautiful Mind is schizophrenic. The Unabomber is as well. Plenty of highly intelligent paranoid schizophrenics out there.

The only problem is, high functioning or not, schizophrenics do have episodes. In the past 60 or so years, we have hospitalized schizophrenics if necessary during these episodes, barring clear and present danger, we have released them once they have stabilized. Not so in Victorian times. Typically, if they went in symptomatic, they stayed in. Given that the general populace viewed the mentally ill as incredibly dangerous and some even thought it might be contagious, it seems unlikely that a condition as occasionally obvious as schizophrenia would go either unremarked or unpunished.

[corey123]

Hello Errata,

Good ol'Tennessee God bless it.

I agree, when I said I was using the generic term of intellegence this is exactly what I ment. Basic understanding of the 7 learning catagories, math/logic, spatial, interpersonal, intrapersonal, music, language, body movements. Also the preference of other types og learning over others is too true. In school, I hate math, but I love psychology. In math, I am a math wiz but I still hate it, but I have already read the whole psychology textbook and its only the second nine-weeks. This is due to something called reinforcement value, which is the preference of certain types of reinforcement over others.

Barnaby,

I agree, there are some very talented schizephrenics, I know one personally, and when on his medicen, he act's normal. However, you have to realize(correct me if I am wrong)there were no such medication in 1888.

Also you are right again, Stride was the slip up and if Jack the Ripper was of High to superior intellegence I don't believe that would have happened. Nor do I believe Eddowes would have been killed.

Yours truly

[Barnaby]

Replying to some earlier posts, I think most of us would like it if Jack turned out to be a highly intelligent offender. After 120+ years, if Jack turned out to be a cognitively challenged person who couldn't even articulate his motives had he been questioned, I for one would be disappointed. That's not glorifying Jack. That's trying to rationalize time spent on hobby.

Having said that, I don't see any evidence of above-average intelligence here. He would have really had to screw up to get caught, and he almost did that at least once!

[Barnaby]

[QUOTE=Rubyretro;143264][QUOTE].

I absolutely can't accept that he was a Schitzophrenic, because I personally know a Schitzophrenic and believe Me, people would turn to look at him in the street (for example: the person that I know has been a brilliant sucessful business man, but despite having a home and comfort, he has been known to draw out loads of money from a distributer, throw the money up in the air for
passers by, and then go barefoot to beg. Someone like him would be incapable of 'planning' violence -although he can be scarily 'out of control' violent). [QUOTE]

John Nash of A Beautiful Mind is schizophrenic. The Unabomber is as well. Plenty of highly intelligent paranoid schizophrenics out there.