Hiding in the Vigilance Committee

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Monty,

I was curious while reading it if you had taken a look at my 'A Vigilant Interlude' in Ripper Notes #25?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Monty]

I found Monty's article detailed and well-researched, if a bit rose-tinted, but that's just a matter of our differing perspectives. I have it printed out and on my table at home as we speak, because I intend to consult it for my book.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Tom,

I think that fair. It was kinda suggested I tackled this topic rather than I chosing it, and it may be due to that as to why it is a tad diluted.

However I enjoyed researching it, and the people involved such as Bendoff.

Monty

[Monty]

Monty enters stage left and waits for audience applause.....not a sausage.

OK, Greg,

It makes one wonder what were the rules or strategies of the VC? Was it like kids playing hide and seek..........you two guys take Berner St.....you three guys work commercial road..split up and meet in the middle.........stuff like that....I wonder if anyone knows how they went about there surveillance....? How many were there? How long did they stay out?

Each committee had its own variation on patrolling. Basically they were split into pairs with one or two at fixed points. They organised themselves in a very similar fashion to the Police. They liaised with the Police often, passing on information or suspicions. The majority of Bobbies welcomed this however a report in the Irish Times of Sept 17th does show a few PCs resented the Vigilantes, probably with just cause as some of the Vigilants held an air of superiority over the locals. The report, given by a bobby, reads:-

It won’t last a month. They’ll get little help – at last no more help than anyone else – from our chaps: and if they get interfering with respectable people our men will ‘run them in’ as a caution for future behaviour. With regard to the roughs, well all I can say is ‘they will have a high old time of it’ and to the benefit of our men. They can, to use their own words, ‘smell a fly copper’ – i.e. plain clothes man; and when they get hold of an ‘amateur’ or two, God help the amateurs! Kicking a regular policeman is a pleasure at any time not lightly to be spoken of, but the chances of ‘booting’ the head or ribs of an amateur ‘slop’ will afford a new and indescribable pleasure, and one to be indulged in on every possible occasion. These ‘vigilants’ will be looked upon as ‘coppers noses’ or ‘coppers narks’ – i.e. police informers – and to use the roughs own words, ‘a copper’ is bad enough, but his nark!’ – well, kill him, and that is about what he will get, or something very near it. They have forgotten one thing in their outfit, and that is an ‘ambulance’ – that will be wanted oftener than truncheons. At least I think so.

The hours of work varied. At their height, the Mile End Vigilance Committee had 50 men on their books 12 of these men a an intimate knowledge of the area and were chosen to lead these patrols. Patrols were noted, routes planned and anything suspicious pencilled in a notebook. Beats were undertaken as soon as the men finished their working day. These beats were finnished around 4 or 5am, in some cases when day broke. Now some of these men had a days work, these chaps tended to finish earlier, however those who could commit to a daybreak finished did so. These men equipped themselves with lanterns, sticks and something the Police never had, rubber soled boots.

The senior members of the Commitee, Aarons, Lusk etc, stayed behind of an evening to tackle various issues such as a reward appeal and future beats. When these meeting were concluded these men would patrol the area themselves, ensuring those on the beat were conducting themselves correctly. Again, this was influenced by the Police. They held regualr meeting with the Police and took advice from them also.

Members were, I believe, logged into a book whoever I dont think they were vetted to any great degree. I know many men who were unable to find work in the day voluenteered for vigilance work at night because on some occaisions tea and buns were supplied as refreshments.

They also hired Private Dectective. Toms man Le Grand was one of these alongside Batchelor. These men were hired more to investigate than patrol and Im sure Tom could explain more.

Now these were the committees. Along with those we have the 'Amatuers' or 'Independants'. Probably the most well know of these was Dr William Holt, the white eyed man. These guys worked on their own and were often more a hinderance as they were often watched by other vigilantes and Police due to their suspicious behavoir.

Finally we have the News reporters who did a bit of sleuthing not for public gain but more to find titbits to use in their papers.

I hope this covers some of your questions.

Monty

[Tom_Wescott]

I found Monty's article detailed and well-researched, if a bit rose-tinted, but that's just a matter of our differing perspectives. I have it printed out and on my table at home as we speak, because I intend to consult it for my book.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Rob Clack]

Someone read it !

Cheers mate....not good enough to win a Beadle award though....not that you remind me huh?

Monty

I just looked at the pictures

Seriously it was a good read.

Rob

P.S. put a cheque in the post

[Monty]

Neils article on the Vigilance Committee (titled 'Defenceless Whitechapel') appeared in Ripperologist number 95, and very good it is.

Rob

Someone read it !

Cheers mate....not good enough to win a Beadle award though....not that you remind me huh?

Monty

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Archaic, I know that we have photographs of three members - Lusk, George Reeves, and Charles Le Grand. There probably are photos of other members out there, such as Joseph Aarons, who in my estimation was the true leader of the Vigilance, but none of been looked for or found. I doubt a group photo was ever taken.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Rob Clack]

Neils article on the Vigilance Committee (titled 'Defenceless Whitechapel') appeared in Ripperologist number 95, and very good it is.

Rob

[Archaic]

Photographs of Vigilance Committee Members?

I have another question about the vigilance committees.

Does anybody know if there are any photographs of the different committees, such as the Mile End Vigilance Committee?

Victorians were very fond of documenting important occasions, undertakings, and groups of people via photography. It seems likely that they would have taken photos of committee members, or at least of some of them. (Maybe as a smaller group.)
Their names weren't secret, so I think it unlikely that they avoided a photograph for security concerns. Besides, a photo would be in private hands and not necessarily on public display.

If a photo was taken I would expect Lusk to have a copy.
Has anybody ever looked into what happened to Lusk's estate when he passed away?

Thanks and best regards,
Archaic

[Tom_Wescott]

It makes one wonder what were the rules or strategies of the VC? Was it like kids playing hide and seek..........you two guys take Berner St.....you three guys work commercial road..split up and meet in the middle.........stuff like that....I wonder if anyone knows how they went about there surveillance....? How many were there? How long did they stay out?

This would seem to be Monty's cue to enter stage left and provide the answers.

I say this, Greg, because Monty has made a real study of the various vigilance committees in operation in Whitechapel during the fall of 1988.

Great pitch for the new Examiner you did there, Don. You're a regular PT Barnum.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Archaic]

Members Only?

This would seem to be Monty's cue to enter stage left and provide the answers.

Hi guys.

I'd be very interested to hear what Monty has to say on this subject.

One thing I've always wondered is whether the vigilance committee meetings were 'closed' and confidential, strictly 'members only',
or if "concerned citizens" were allowed to attend on an informal basis?

After the meetings, did some members gather informally for a pint and a chat that others could possibly overhear?
Attending and listening would have been quite a lark for the killer.

Best regards,
Archaic

[GregBaron]

VC.........

Thanks Don,

I expected someone would know such things and perhaps pipe in.....very important especially if we analyze Le Grand via his VC membership as regards
T. Westcott's essay................


Greg

[Supe]

It makes one wonder what were the rules or strategies of the VC? Was it like kids playing hide and seek..........you two guys take Berner St.....you three guys work commercial road..split up and meet in the middle.........stuff like that....I wonder if anyone knows how they went about there surveillance....? How many were there? How long did they stay out?

This would seem to be Monty's cue to enter stage left and provide the answers.

I say this, Greg, because Monty has made a real study of the various vigilance committees in operation in Whitechapel during the fall of 1988.

Don.

[GregBaron]

VC strategies.................

It makes one wonder what were the rules or strategies of the VC? Was it like kids playing hide and seek..........you two guys take Berner St.....you three guys work commercial road..split up and meet in the middle.........stuff like that....I wonder if anyone knows how they went about there surveillance....? How many were there? How long did they stay out?
Did they work alone? Many questions....If JtR was in there...he must have felt he had the privacy and the time and an undercover normal outfit that wouldn't arouse suspicion in order to do his deed......disappear and clean up.....and then perhaps return as a shocked vigilante..Leads to many thoughts....I'm sure someone knows something about the VC....I sure don't...


Greg

[lynn cates]

possibilities

Hello Ham. "[Y]ou'd think the members of the committee must have been watching each other to some degree since the possib[i]lity must have occurred to at least some of them."

Good point. Of course, all of us have tunnel vision at some juncture. Perhaps they were so single minded that they were not alive to that option?

At any rate, as you say, there is much room for fascinating (and perhaps fruitful) conjecture.

Cheers.
LC