Time Pattern of the Killings

[Sam Flynn]

But on the other hand, not knowing what specific triggers were active at what specific dates in the reality of the killer makes it meaningless to hypothesize either about non successfull dates or patterns connected to unknown factors.

It's not meaningless at all, unless one wants to believe that he was 100% successful each time his "triggers" kicked in, or that a sure-fire victim just happened to cross his path every time one of his "patterns" demanded it. Hugely unlikely, I'd suggest.

[Pierre]

We need to be a little careful with time patterns. We have to bear in mind that the "canonical" dates might only reflect those nights on which the killer was successful, not necessarily the only nights on which he was out and about. For all we know, he might have gone prowling most nights, but only "got lucky" once every few weeks, striking only when the conditions suited his purposes.

But on the other hand, not knowing what specific triggers were active at what specific dates in the reality of the killer makes it meaningless to hypothesize either about non successfull dates or patterns connected to unknown factors.

Pierre

[Sam Flynn]

We need to be a little careful with time patterns. We have to bear in mind that the "canonical" dates might only reflect those nights on which the killer was successful, not necessarily the only nights on which he was out and about. For all we know, he might have gone prowling most nights, but only "got lucky" once every few weeks, striking only when the conditions suited his purposes.

[Fantomas]

This alone surely strikes Tumblety and Kosminski from suspicion. Men to whom "working week" hours of business meant nothing?

[Abby Normal]

the only real time pattern that I see is they occurred on weekends/holidays at night and interestingly either in the beginning or end of the month. which IMHO would beg the question, what line of work would prevent murders in the middle of the week?

[Michael W Richards]

Well, Mary was killed and mutilated after all. Liz is an entirely different matter - she died a death whose characteristics bear close comparison with several other victims in LVP Whitechapel, none of whom are now seriously ascribed to Jack the Ripper.

If there is a common pattern, it's that all the victims - whether Jack's or not - seem to have been relatively "soft targets". Of course, this tells us a lot about the victims, and precious little about the murderers themselves.

I repeat Sam, what we need to look for are possible Motives, and the ladies I mentioned seem to have fallen prey to someone who picked ripe targets...alone, depleted physically, on the streets, looking to get strangers into dark corners.

In no other Canonical murders do we have that so obviously demonstrated.

[Michael W Richards]

I have an idea why Mary Kelly was killed. I also have an idea why Annie Chapman was killed.
Oddly, they both had their abdominal walls completely cut away in 3 (Kelly) and 4 (Chapman) large pieces of skin with subcutaneous tissue attaching. To me, this puts it well beyond doubt that they had the same killer.

I know that I have mentioned this before, but it very much belongs to the picture - extremely rare damage like this is exactly how we can tie victims together.

Perhaps if there had been no Polly Nichols you might have a point Fish, but Annies murder is by far more easily connected with Annie than Marys is. Apart from the obvious differing locale, injuries and age, we know of a possible motive with Mary. there is no such evidence with Annie...she was randomly selected, just like Polly.

[DJA]

I have an idea why Mary Kelly was killed. I also have an idea why Annie Chapman was killed.
Oddly, they both had their abdominal walls completely cut away in 3 (Kelly) and 4 (Chapman) large pieces of skin with subcutaneous tissue attaching. To me, this puts it well beyond doubt that they had the same killer.

I know that I have mentioned this before, but it very much belongs to the picture - extremely rare damage like this is exactly how we can tie victims together.

Yep.

Liz was not cut open as her condition was hereditary and of little interest to Jack.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heredi...e:Case_115.jpg

[Sam Flynn]

Perhaps police work might help enlighten those people, because discovering MOTIVE is what leads to criminals. the motive for killing the 3 women I mentioned seems to have been to kill and mutilate. We have no idea why Mary was killed, nor do we have any idea why Liz was killed.

Well, Mary was killed and mutilated after all. Liz is an entirely different matter - she died a death whose characteristics bear close comparison with several other victims in LVP Whitechapel, none of whom are now seriously ascribed to Jack the Ripper.

If there is a common pattern, it's that all the victims - whether Jack's or not - seem to have been relatively "soft targets". Of course, this tells us a lot about the victims, and precious little about the murderers themselves.

[Fisherman]

Since the likelihood is that 1 killer can be linked with only 3 Canonical Murders, by the circumstantial and physical evidence, looking for patterns using 6 murders is an exercise in futility. The 3 murders I refer to are Polly Nichols....soliciting for doss money when she met her killer, double throat cut, abdominal wounds,...Annie Chapman, soliciting for doss money when she met her killer, double throat cut, abdominal wounds, and Kate Eddowes, possibly soliciting when she met her killer, double throat cut, abdominal wounds. Mary Kelly was of course at home in bed, and Liz was apparently not soliciting but in Berner Street for some other purpose, and, obviously, she is missing ALL the relevant injuries.

People have been forever grouping these victims and looking at moon phases, days and weeks of the month of the murders, the fact that they were unfortunates, mere throat cuts, as a way of establishing some pattern that might reveal what went on here.

Perhaps police work might help enlighten those people, because discovering MOTIVE is what leads to criminals. the motive for killing the 3 women I mentioned seems to have been to kill and mutilate. We have no idea why Mary was killed, nor do we have any idea why Liz was killed.

I have an idea why Mary Kelly was killed. I also have an idea why Annie Chapman was killed.
Oddly, they both had their abdominal walls completely cut away in 3 (Kelly) and 4 (Chapman) large pieces of skin with subcutaneous tissue attaching. To me, this puts it well beyond doubt that they had the same killer.

I know that I have mentioned this before, but it very much belongs to the picture - extremely rare damage like this is exactly how we can tie victims together.

[Michael W Richards]

Since the likelihood is that 1 killer can be linked with only 3 Canonical Murders, by the circumstantial and physical evidence, looking for patterns using 6 murders is an exercise in futility. The 3 murders I refer to are Polly Nichols....soliciting for doss money when she met her killer, double throat cut, abdominal wounds,...Annie Chapman, soliciting for doss money when she met her killer, double throat cut, abdominal wounds, and Kate Eddowes, possibly soliciting when she met her killer, double throat cut, abdominal wounds. Mary Kelly was of course at home in bed, and Liz was apparently not soliciting but in Berner Street for some other purpose, and, obviously, she is missing ALL the relevant injuries.

People have been forever grouping these victims and looking at moon phases, days and weeks of the month of the murders, the fact that they were unfortunates, mere throat cuts, as a way of establishing some pattern that might reveal what went on here.

Perhaps police work might help enlighten those people, because discovering MOTIVE is what leads to criminals. the motive for killing the 3 women I mentioned seems to have been to kill and mutilate. We have no idea why Mary was killed, nor do we have any idea why Liz was killed.

[Fantomas]

I doubt the the nights of the killing were bright moonlit nights.

Good point.

All the dates fall on either no moon (new moon) or quarter moon-into-new-moon.

Records viewable here:

https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar...1888&country=9

All these murders took place in darkness and in the opposite of bright, moonlit nights.

Now. If we go the (slightly misogynist) theory that the killer was a pre menstrual woman or man motivated by hunting out menstruating women, the lunar cycle is not insignificant.

[Charles Daniels]

Hi,
I started the 'Thirty nine theory '' years ago. , it was dismissed as pure numerology .
Starting with Martha Tabram's 39 stab wounds, the rest followed into the pattern, even ending with 26, Dorset street., room 13 .
But like all speculation it was dismissed.
Regards Richard.

Hello Richard,

I think one key reason that people become sceptical of numerology is that the source of the numbers, even within a single theory, keep changing.

For instance, if you a series of victims and each one was stabbed 39 times, I think most people would agree to a pattern.

If each of the victims lived at 39 SuchandSuch Street, again most would concede you should take extra caution if your address happened to be 39 something.

Most numerology arguments tend to go -

The first victim was stabbed 39 times, the second victim was 20 and the third victim was 19, the fourth victim lived 3.9 miles away from the other victims, and the fifth victim was £1.95 behind on their rent which is 39x5 (five for the fifth victim), the sixth victim was murdered on the 39 hours after the fifth victim...

And so on and so on.

It becomes difficult for people to imagine a killer, or anybody, thinking of things this way and having all these facts at hand.

Even if a numerological argument is less elaborate, people tend to dismiss them much as they do conspiracy theories.

However, the existence of numerology does prove, if nothing else, that SOME people do think of numbers in this way and DO allow these numbers to guide or influence their actions.

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
I started the 'Thirty nine theory '' years ago. , it was dismissed as pure numerology .
Starting with Martha Tabram's 39 stab wounds, the rest followed into the pattern, even ending with 26, Dorset street., room 13 .
But like all speculation it was dismissed.
Regards Richard.

[Charles Daniels]

Not terribly helpful, but I'll chip in some thoughts

Okay

Aug 7 was a Tuesday

Sept 8 was a Saturday

Oct 9th (missed date in this pattern) was a Tuesday

Nov 9th was a Friday


So maybe Tuesday October 9th just wasn't a great night and a bit inconvenient for his activities.

Or maybe he tried Tuesday before, back in August and he had a bit more spot of bother and thought "From now on I'm sticking to weekends."

I really don't know. But it gives me some question marks over Tabram