Did JtR Wander Around For Hours Looking For Likely Victim

[curious]

Hello Curious.

"At this moment, I'm exploring the traditional view[.]"

And rightly so. I think it good to spend considerable time there--at least initially.

"I do believe Annie to have died considerably before 5:30, but she was still out for several hours with her whereabouts unknown."

Well, if she died around 4:00, and given she left between 1:30 and 2:00, that would make just over 2 hours.

"Just looking at possibilities -- not .probabilities."

Good! ALL must be looked at. (Oh dear, now I've ended a sentence with a preposition. Sorry.)

"So, it wasn't just weekends, or when certain ships were in town?"

Well, there were always ships nearby. You might have a go at Trevor Marriott's book in this regard. He has certainly worked hard on his research into ships.

"So, what gentlemenly activities -- other than pub crawling -- were taking place?"

Ahem. Well, ask Polly, Annie or Kate. (snicker!)

The best.
LC

now, now, Lynn!

We already know that one meeting was breaking up about the time Stride and Eddowes were killed.

On the other nights, were similar activities just ending?

At my age -- considerably older than Annie -- if I wandered around for two hours, it would feel like several.

curious

[lynn cates]

revenge

Hello Curious. Yes, those are reasonable motives. In fact, for many years, it was just a "given" that Jack had contracted VD from a prostitute and so was exacting his revenge upon that whole class.

I say, I wish someone would start a thread on revenge. It hasn't been discussed in a long while. Perhaps someone has some new insights?

The best.
LC

[curious]

Hello Curious and DVV.

"I don't understand what's romantic?"

This refers to the product of Sir MM's dictum and many years of ripperology.

It includes:

1. A single Jack with 5 canonical victims.

2. Blood lust, or, in some versions, revenge.

3. Fog.

4. A top hat and cape.

5. A Gladstone bag filled with surgical instruments.

6. Big Ben striking in the background along with appropriate music from a double bassoon and/or bass viol.

Ah! This really takes me back!

The best.
LC

Lynn,

1) I started believing number 1, then quickly began seeing other things.

Now, for the first time, matching Eddowes with Nichols and Chapman, I'm looking there again, but it doesn't mean I'll stop my thinking there.

2) Blood lust or revenge -- well, that would be the motive most likely, whatever the revenge is for. I think pure blood lust would have gotten our boy caught. Revenge? now that's a trickier matter.

3) Fog -- well, it was after all in August that the canonical killings began. In my part of the world, it's said that if you count the fogs in August, you'll know how many snows to expect in the winter (completely wrong, by the way).

4) at the moment, I have no idea what Jack was wearing, what kind of man he was or anything else concrete about Jack -- he's wispier than the fog itself

5) Or perhaps a machete wrapped in newspaper

6) Very nice -- but I'm hearing more the lonesomeness of a train whistle

curious

[DVV]

Hi Curious,
the drinking question...


Half pastif, half water. Two ice cubes.
Twenty times.
Don't forget salt peanuts and Dizzy Gillespie.

Amitiés,
David

[lynn cates]

varia

Hello Curious.

"At this moment, I'm exploring the traditional view[.]"

And rightly so. I think it good to spend considerable time there--at least initially.

"I do believe Annie to have died considerably before 5:30, but she was still out for several hours with her whereabouts unknown."

Well, if she died around 4:00, and given she left between 1:30 and 2:00, that would make just over 2 hours.

"Just looking at possibilities -- not .probabilities."

Good! ALL must be looked at. (Oh dear, now I've ended a sentence with a preposition. Sorry.)

"So, it wasn't just weekends, or when certain ships were in town?"

Well, there were always ships nearby. You might have a go at Trevor Marriott's book in this regard. He has certainly worked hard on his research into ships.

"So, what gentlemenly activities -- other than pub crawling -- were taking place?"

Ahem. Well, ask Polly, Annie or Kate. (snicker!)

The best.
LC

[curious]

Curious,

about a drunk Jack, just keep in mind that many serial killers work under the effect of alcohol and drugs.

Amitiés,
David

Agreed, David.

But how much? drinking to work up his courage (I know some men who won't dance until they've had a couple)

But drinking for hours?

I don't personally have enough knowledge to know.

curious

[curious]

Hello Curious.

Of course, this already presupposes the traditional ripper with all the trappings.
"Poor Annie, sick and tired, apparently wandered for hours."

True, IF she was killed at 5:30. Some think she died an hour or more before that time.

"Or did he awaken in the middle of the night with a killing fever and go trolling?"

This view of Jack is simply delicious! I would be delighted if it were true. Imagine, a man with a Jekyll/Hyde problem trying desperately to stop his career but he is compelled by forces beyond his control.

"I'm guessing since the murders occurred on the weekends, there was a lot going on? what kinds of things?"

Notice that, the traditionalists have gerrymandered "weekend" to include Thursdays through Mondays, as well as bank holidays. With such a broad definition, I would be astonished if the killings took place any other time. What else is left?

The best.
LC

Hi, Lynn,

At this moment, I'm exploring the traditional view -- a least partially, because I've just seen Eddowes matching with Nichols and Chapman in a significant way -- broke and no place to go.

I do believe Annie to have died considerably before 5:30, but she was still out for several hours with her whereabouts unknown.

You say: "This view of Jack is simply delicious! I would be delighted if it were true. Imagine, a man with a Jekyll/Hyde problem trying desperately to stop his career but he is compelled by forces beyond his control."

Just looking at possibilities -- not .probabilities.

So, it wasn't just weekends, or when certain ships were in town? good.

So, what gentlemenly activities -- other than pub crawling -- were taking place?

I suspect I'm never gonna be very traditional.

curious

[lynn cates]

hope springs eternal

Hello DVV. Quite right. 1 and 2 are still open to question and I would be glad to see them resolved in the traditional manner.

I still hold out hope that the Rev. Andy will dig out a signed confession by Druitt vis-a-vis the 5 canonicals. (And I mean that sincerely.)

The best.
LC

[DVV]

Lynn,

I'm with you from 3 to 6, but all these questions have been cleared up, which is not the case of 1 and 2.

One can believe that Jack killed 5 times, or 4, or 6 or 7, the question is still open, and none of our choices would be romantic, or more or less romantic than any else.
The same is true re the motive. Still a valid question.

Amitiés,
David

[lynn cates]

multiple views

Hello DVV.

"The fact that there was no murder in October, and the indoors final chapter, tell me about Jack-the-cautious"

And that's one perfectly rational explanation. But there are others. Notice that this view already leaps to the conclusion that there is one perpetrator and 5 victims.

The best.
LC

[lynn cates]

romance

Hello Curious and DVV.

"I don't understand what's romantic?"

This refers to the product of Sir MM's dictum and many years of ripperology.

It includes:

1. A single Jack with 5 canonical victims.

2. Blood lust, or, in some versions, revenge.

3. Fog.

4. A top hat and cape.

5. A Gladstone bag filled with surgical instruments.

6. Big Ben striking in the background along with appropriate music from a double bassoon and/or bass viol.

Ah! This really takes me back!

The best.
LC

[DVV]

Curious,

about a drunk Jack, just keep in mind that many serial killers work under the effect of alcohol and drugs.

Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

Hi Lynn,

and thanks, for it's not often that I'm called romantic...though I may be...
But what is romantic?
The idea of Jack wandering the streets?
Stride's canonical status?
The fact that there was no murder in October, and the indoors final chapter, tell me about Jack-the-cautious, though, as always and as has been recently pointed out, "Miller's Court could also be a trap."

I grant you that my clumsy English may often sound strange...!

Amitiés,
David

[lynn cates]

questioning the view

Hello Curious.

"If JtR had been drinking for hours, would he have been steady enough to plot out his actions?

1) finding a victim -- at this moment, I'm seeing this as pure chance.

2) getting the victim to a secluded place?

3) subduing them, then slicing their throats so strongly and deeply?

could someone drinking for hours accomplish this?"

Shhh. You're not supposed to ask questions like that. Socrates asked analogous questions about traditional views and he paid a heavy price. (snicker!)

The best.
LC

[curious]

Hello DVV.

"Some nights, who knows, he may have searched in vain.
I supposed wandering the streets was also part of the ritual, another source of adrenaline.
There's a strange mixture of caution and temerity in him, well expressed by Dr Bond: "great coolness and daring"."

I must say, I love this "romantic" view of Jack and sincerely hope that you are right.

("But I 'ave me doubts.")

The best.
LC

Lynn,

I don't understand what's romantic?

Thanks,

Curious