Cocaine?

[DVV]

Hello halomanuk, after a long time!

Doing fine and I agree with you; the Ripper was so madly in love with his deeds, that he didn't need any drugs!

What it comes to Sherlock Holmes, there was a mentioned "narcotics" in some story. But that's (since English is not my mother-tongue! ) a pretty wide concept, I think!

All the best
Jukka

Hi Jukka,
cd is right, Conan Doyle furnished Sherlock with cocaine.
Obviously, we hardly imagine this character using opium. That's another world...

Amitiés,
David

[Stephen Thomas]

Hi David

Did you know that Gustave Eiffel told the owner of the Coca Cola Company that if he had discovered the wonderful cocaine based drink earlier he would have made his tower (built 1888) three times as high.

[c.d.]

Hi David

Did you know that Gustave Eiffel told the owner of the Coca Cola Company that if he had discovered the wonderful cocaine based drink earlier he would have made his tower (built 1888) three times as high.

Him or the tower?

c.d.

[Fisherman]

Jeff asks:

"Wasn't BS man described as walking, as if drunk?"

You are forgetting two things here, Jeff:

1. He WAS described as intoxicated - but only by the lousy rag the Star, and not in the police report.

2. B S man was not the Ripper...

I´ve only just started readin Dave Yosts book on Stride (came with the post today; the book that is, and not Stride...), and I could not refrain from taking a look at the last page first, finding that Yost feels confident that both the man who killed Stride and Jack will one day (well, probably TWO days) be revealed. I have a feeling that it will be a read in my taste.

The best,
Fisherman

[Stephen Thomas]

Him or the tower?

Hi c.d.

Both!!!!!!!!

[Jon Guy]

Jack seemed to be frenzied in what he did. My first thought is PCP but that wasn't around then. Could cocaine be a part of the picture here? I don't know enough about the symptoms of cocaine intoxication to say.

It was certainly obtainable for the working classes, as Patrick Mulshaw,the Winthrop St watchman admitted at the Nichols inquest :

Alfred Malshaw [Mulshaw], a night watchman in Winthorpe-street, had also heard no cries or noise. He admitted that he sometimes dozed.
The Coroner: I suppose your watching is not up to much?
The Witness: I don't know. It is thirteen long hours for 3s and find your own coke. (Laughter.)
By the Jury: In a straight line I was about thirty yards from the spot where the deceased was found.

[perrymason]

Hi all,

Since......and forgive any spelling errors, ... Laudanum, Strycnine, Opium, Peyote, Absynthe, Arsenic, and various other "medicinal" use intoxicants were available, no reason why the killer might not have had an addiction besides murder and mutilation. But probably not Cocaine.

On symptom long time users of stimulating narcotics, barbituates and opiates share is paranoia, a particularly disabling condition for a guy who kills in public while lots of folks are looking for him.

Maybe he had weakness for only fresh, steak and kidney pie.

Best regards all.

[halomanuk]

Michael - good to see the old 'perry mason' still going since i was gone !!

I think though,re the drugs,that it would cloud any kind of significant judgement,especially any escape route through memorised streets of the East End and also being convincingly alluring to the 'working girls'.

[perrymason]

Michael - good to see the old 'perry mason' still going since i was gone !!

I think though,re the drugs,that it would cloud any kind of significant judgement,especially any escape route through memorised streets of the East End and also being convincingly alluring to the 'working girls'.

Its nice to see you back Barry, ...I admit Ive been pretty steadily involved here....some great people and smart dialogue...you gotta like that.

You are correct I think about clouded judgement, if anything I think his sickness was like a drug, and he probably only need feed that to be happy.

Cheers mate, good to have you aboard again.

[Jeff Leahy]

Jeff asks:

"Wasn't BS man described as walking, as if drunk?"

You are forgetting two things here, Jeff:

1. He WAS described as intoxicated - but only by the lousy rag the Star, and not in the police report.

Well that's pretty much what I said, and the Star wasn't a lousy rag at the time, and its a perfectly reasonable source. This is an investigation not a courtroom.

2. B S man was not the Ripper...

oh yes he was

I´ve only just started readin Dave Yosts book on Stride (came with the post today; the book that is, and not Stride...), and I could not refrain from taking a look at the last page first, finding that Yost feels confident that both the man who killed Stride and Jack will one day (well, probably TWO days) be revealed. I have a feeling that it will be a read in my taste.

The best,
Fisherman

I grabbed a quick flick through it round at Begg's last week but he wont let me borrow it..I might have to buy a copy or beet him up...of course smug old Begg has English translations of the first book on Stride which he wont let me borrow either....

I must admit i find the Berner Steet murder the most facinating. Happy reading Fisherman

Pirate

[Byzantine]

Hi Jukka,
cd is right, Conan Doyle furnished Sherlock with cocaine.
Obviously, we hardly imagine this character using opium. That's another world...

Amitiés,
David

Well, that did not stop Sherlock from hanging in an opium den in "The Man with the Twisted Lip" (1891). With Watson confirming having patients addicted to opium.

"Isa Whitney, brother of the late Elias Whitney, D.D., Principal of the Theological College of St. George’s, was much addicted to opium. The habit grew upon him, as I understand, from some foolish freak when he was at college; for having read De Quincey’s description of his dreams and sensations, he had drenched his tobacco with laudanum in an attempt to produce the same effects. He found, as so many more have done, that the practice is easier to attain than to get rid of, and for many years he continued to be a slave to the drug, an object of mingled horror and pity to his friends and relatives. I can see him now, with yellow, pasty face, drooping lids, and pin-point pupils, all huddled in a chair, the wreck and ruin of a noble man." Thomas de Quincey being ,naturally, the author of "Confessions of an English Opium-Eater" (1822)

Watson goes searching for Isa in the opium den. "Upper Swandam Lane is a vile alley lurking behind the high wharves which line the north side of the river to the east of London Bridge. Between a slop-shop and a gin-shop, approached by a steep flight of steps leading down to a black gap like the mouth of a cave, I found the den of which I was in search. Ordering my cab to wait, I passed down the steps, worn hollow in the centre by the ceaseless tread of drunken feet; and by the light of a flickering oil-lamp above the door I found the latch and made my way into a long, low room, thick and heavy with the brown opium smoke, and terraced with wooden berths, like the forecastle of an emigrant ship."

"Through the gloom one could dimly catch a glimpse of bodies lying in strange fantastic poses, bowed shoulders, bent knees, heads thrown back, and chins pointing upward, with here and there a dark, lack-lustre eye turned upon the newcomer. Out of the black shadows there glimmered little red circles of light, now bright, now faint, as the burning poison waxed or waned in the bowls of the metal pipes. The most lay silent, but some muttered to themselves, and others talked together in a strange, low, monotonous voice, their conversation coming in gushes, and then suddenly tailing off into silence, each mumbling out his own thoughts and paying little heed to the words of his neighbour. At the farther end was a small brazier of burning charcoal, beside which on a three-legged wooden stool there sat a tall, thin old man, with his jaw resting upon his two fists, and his elbows upon his knees, staring into the fire."

Watson finds both Isa and Sherlock. "He had turned his back so that none could see him but I. His form had filled out, his wrinkles were gone, the dull eyes had regained their fire, and there, sitting by the fire and grinning at my surprise, was none other than Sherlock Holmes. He made a slight motion to me to approach him, and instantly, as he turned his face half round to the company once more, subsided into a doddering, loose-lipped senility. “Holmes!” I whispered, “what on earth are you doing in this den?” ... "“I suppose, Watson,” said he, “that you imagine that I have added opium-smoking to cocaine injections, and all the other little weaknesses on which you have favoured me with your medical views.”

Holmes then goes on explaining he was actually investigating the disappearance of Neville St. Clair. A likely story. Doyle has certainly painted an interesting picture of Victorian opium addicts.

[Mitch Rowe]

It was certainly obtainable for the working classes, as Patrick Mulshaw,the Winthrop St watchman admitted at the Nichols inquest :

Alfred Malshaw [Mulshaw], a night watchman in Winthorpe-street, had also heard no cries or noise. He admitted that he sometimes dozed.
The Coroner: I suppose your watching is not up to much?
The Witness: I don't know. It is thirteen long hours for 3s and find your own coke. (Laughter.)
By the Jury: In a straight line I was about thirty yards from the spot where the deceased was found.

Hmm? I dont think thats what he meant Jon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coke_(fuel)

And I dont think anyone would refer to cocaine as coke. It wasnt like there was a drug revolution in the 1860s. Whenever I hear drugs reffered to in the early part of the 20th Century they always use the scientific name or something close to it. Even the normal street poeple.

[Sam Flynn]

Laudanum, Strycnine, Opium, Peyote, Absynthe, Arsenic, and various other "medicinal" use intoxicants were available, no reason why the killer might not have had an addiction besides murder and mutilation. But probably not Cocaine.

"Medicinal" cocaine was being manufactured by pharmaceutical companies at least as early as the late 1870s, Mike. No less a person than Sigmund Freud experimented personally with the drug in the early 1880s, and continued to do so over a number of years. He even prescribed it for some of his patients, sometimes with disastrous results.

[Jon Guy]

Hmm? I dont think thats what he meant Jon.

Just joshin, Mitch.

I chuckle very time I read that transcript, with both drug connotation and the actual meaning ( I like the way Mulshaw grumbles about his job and the following laughter from those present at the inquest).

[GregBaron]

One Opium, One absinthe, One beer please....

Hi all,

I don't think anyone would dispute that narcotics, stimulants & alcohol were available to people of this period. And thanks, Byzantine, for the Sherlock Holmes reference as I actually remember reading that in the past ...

Again, JTR may have indulged in any or all of the above at some point. As mentioned before, we (or I) don't know if a poor man could afford such medicinals. Of course we don't if JTR was a poor man but the main point is (I think) that the crimes indicated a man in full control of his faculties.

1) He solicited prostitues without eliciting fear.
2) He eviscerated and removed organs swiftly.
3) He avoided detection.
4) He left no clues and few witnesses.
5) He was never apprehended.

He may have gone home after a good night's work to a spoonful of opium but he was quite lucid when performing the crimes. I can only see him under the influence of a mild stimulant (most likely alcohol) at best....

Sincerely,

Greg