How did JtR see in the dark?

[packers stem]

[QUOTE=Herlock Sholmes;n712352]

But the facts in no way make it unlikely that Chapman was killed where she was or impossible the Eddowes was killed where she was. The evidence is overwhelming that were both killed there. The alternative is fiction.

There is zero overwhelming evidence .Just interpretations by those who wish to believe .
Ignoring Phillips in Hanbury, excuses for lighting , the ridiculous, unfounded belief in 'slash and grab' ......
it's not 'evidence' it's alternate reality

[Herlock Sholmes]

[QUOTE=packers stem;n712339]

Well if no cart and if the basic facts make the idea of being killed in situ unlikely (Chapman) , impossible (Eddowes) what are the options .
They're limited but there is an obvious one

But the facts in no way make it unlikely that Chapman was killed where she was or impossible the Eddowes was killed where she was. The evidence is overwhelming that were both killed there. The alternative is fiction.

[packers stem]

"Suggests that the jacket was buttoned up with a part of the intestine coming out at the top on to the shoulder"

WTF?!!!

Well .That's his testimony ,
whether you like it or not ...

[packers stem]

[QUOTE=Herlock Sholmes;n711963]

Because I’m trying to deduce what’s being suggested here in the absence of you simply telling me what you mean. If you are suggesting that these women weren’t killed where they were found what do you mean?

Well if no cart and if the basic facts make the idea of being killed in situ unlikely (Chapman) , impossible (Eddowes) what are the options .
They're limited but there is an obvious one

[packers stem]

No it doesn't.

And why would that be ?

[Herlock Sholmes]

[QUOTE=Abby Normal;n712000]

hs
sent you a pm

Got it

[Abby Normal]

[QUOTE=Herlock Sholmes;n711963]

Because I’m trying to deduce what’s being suggested here in the absence of you simply telling me what you mean. If you are suggesting that these women weren’t killed where they were found what do you mean?

hs
sent you a pm

[Herlock Sholmes]

[QUOTE=packers stem;n711923]

What makes you think anybody appeared on a cart and walked any sort of length down the street ?

Because I’m trying to deduce what’s being suggested here in the absence of you simply telling me what you mean. If you are suggesting that these women weren’t killed where they were found what do you mean?

[Sam Flynn]

"Suggests that the jacket was buttoned up with a part of the intestine coming out at the top on to the shoulder"

WTF?!!!

[Joshua Rogan]

Inspector Chandler

The jacket was hooked at the top, and buttoned down the front. By the appearance of the garment there did not seem to have been any struggle.

Suggests that the jacket was buttoned up with a part of the intestine coming out at the top on to the shoulder .

No it doesn't.

[packers stem]

[QUOTE=Herlock Sholmes;n711921]

I’m perfectly willing to concede a point if someone gives me good reason to but I have to ask, were carriages really commonplace in that area? I can understand carts but surely carriages were only used/owned by the better off? So why would they be commonplace in a slum?

Certainly carts would have been a common sight but I’d suggest that it wouldn’t have been like today with cars where it’s a common sight to see a street lined with them? So if there was only one cart in any particular street it’s not impossible that someone might have noticed it especially if that person walked along that street at the same time every day and had never seen a cart there before. That person might even have been familiar with the owner of the property that the cart was parked outside of and if that person didn’t own a cart it might have stuck in his mind. I’m just saying that it would have been an added risk.

What is ludicrous though is the idea of two people carrying a corpse from a cart along any length of street through an indoor passageway and into a backyard. This simply cannot be taken seriously. We have to work too hard to arrive at this kind of conspiracy. Jack the Ripper was a serial killer. The similarities of the crimes, the type of victims, the small area, the short time period all point us in this direction. If the police were investigating the case today do we really think that they’d say - this was an obvious plot were two or more men killed prostitutes for reasons unknown and then transported them to the locations where they were found? Come on.

What makes you think anybody appeared on a cart and walked any sort of length down the street ?

[Herlock Sholmes]

[QUOTE=packers stem;n711919]

This may come as a surprise but carts and carriages were commonplace then ....not the sort of thing to make a mental note of .When walking down a street now who makes a mental note of parked cars unless there's a specific issue with it ?
Hence the 'ludicrous'

No , I doubt there's anything specific about that particular location

I’m perfectly willing to concede a point if someone gives me good reason to but I have to ask, were carriages really commonplace in that area? I can understand carts but surely carriages were only used/owned by the better off? So why would they be commonplace in a slum?

Certainly carts would have been a common sight but I’d suggest that it wouldn’t have been like today with cars where it’s a common sight to see a street lined with them? So if there was only one cart in any particular street it’s not impossible that someone might have noticed it especially if that person walked along that street at the same time every day and had never seen a cart there before. That person might even have been familiar with the owner of the property that the cart was parked outside of and if that person didn’t own a cart it might have stuck in his mind. I’m just saying that it would have been an added risk.

What is ludicrous though is the idea of two people carrying a corpse from a cart along any length of street through an indoor passageway and into a backyard. This simply cannot be taken seriously. We have to work too hard to arrive at this kind of conspiracy. Jack the Ripper was a serial killer. The similarities of the crimes, the type of victims, the small area, the short time period all point us in this direction. If the police were investigating the case today do we really think that they’d say - this was an obvious plot were two or more men killed prostitutes for reasons unknown and then transported them to the locations where they were found? Come on.

[packers stem]

[QUOTE=Herlock Sholmes;n711372]

If a cart was parked outside or very near to number 29, and there wasn’t usually one there, wouldn’t the police have been interested? Especially if the same was noticed at other murder sites.



Or maybe it’s simply ludicrous to suggest two men carrying a corpse first in the street and then into an occupied house to dump a body in a yard. Why not simply drive down a deserted street and just chuck the body out?

Unless of course you’re heading into deep conspiracy territory and that the locations were in some way significant to bunch of black magic practicing Illuminati shape shifters? There’s enough mystery in the case without unnecessarily piling on more.

This may come as a surprise but carts and carriages were commonplace then ....not the sort of thing to make a mental note of .When walking down a street now who makes a mental note of parked cars unless there's a specific issue with it ?
Hence the 'ludicrous'

No , I doubt there's anything specific about that particular location

[packers stem]

The body didn't just have a virtually severed head, but also had the intestines pulled out and draped across the shoulder, another organ removed entirely, and chunks of abdominal flesh cut away and placed nearby. Was this all done before the body was brought to the yard?

Inspector Chandler

The jacket was hooked at the top, and buttoned down the front. By the appearance of the garment there did not seem to have been any struggle.

Suggests that the jacket was buttoned up with a part of the intestine coming out at the top on to the shoulder .

[Sam Flynn]

Well in Kelly's case she was killed indoors and a poweful fire occurred at some stage.

Oh, indeed. The fact that the moon wasn't visible was entirely academic in Kelly's case, but I include the data for completeness.