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Geoprofile of Jack the Ripper reveals Tabram and Nichols connection.

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  • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
    In May, 1901 an unidentified man took an 'unfortunate' into one of the cubicles in Crossingham's 35, Dorset Street doss house and stabbed her internally. She died of her injuries shortly afterwards.
    Thanks Gary
    I will read more about this one.

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    • Originally posted by Jon Guy View Post
      Thanks Gary
      I will read more about this one.
      Hi Jon,

      This by Rob Clack is the best introduction to the Austin murder:

      https://www.casebook.org/dissertatio...nn-austin.html

      Gary

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
        A torn blouse and an upturned skirt doesn't equate to stripping.
        There are many meanings to the word stripping someone down, especially in reference to a crime.

        A prosecutor could easily argue a victim has been stripped of some of her clothing. The fact her breasts were exposed before stabbing by ripping her garments and pushing them aside is no more congruent with a frezy spur of the moment attack than the fact they used two weapons, switching from one to another.
        Bona fide canonical and then some.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
          Indeed, a "rush of blood" attacker need not reoffend.
          Or, if his next attack didn't include a cut to his victim's lower part, it might not be connected.

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          • Asked twice now without an answer so here it goes for a third time...
            How many cuts did Eddowes have on the lower part of her body compared to the upper part of her body?
            The reason the detractors won't answer this is that their "upper body focus" claims (another example of not having criteria to differentiate between a lust murder and an 'angry client in a frenzy') can be applied to Eddowes also. Heck with Kelly it's 50/50 upper and lower body focus.

            I noticed though a half attempt to try and change their goal posts again.

            JtR also focuses on the upper body. A fact of all the crimes, because their necks are cut. Then we have other upper body assaults on both Eddowes and Kelly.

            That upper body focus argument is a bust.
            Last edited by Batman; 10-30-2018, 08:37 AM.
            Bona fide canonical and then some.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Batman View Post
              Asked twice now without an answer so here it goes for a third time...

              The reason the detractors won't answer this is that their "upper body focus" claims (another example of not having criteria to differentiate between a lust murder and an 'angry client in a frenzy') can be applied to Eddowes also. Heck with Kelly it's 50/50 upper and lower body focus.

              I noticed though a half attempt to try and change their goal posts again.

              JtR also focuses on the upper body. A fact of all the crimes, because their necks are cut. Then we other upper body assaults on both Eddowes and Kelly.

              That upper body focus argument is a bust.
              There's no upper body focus argument that I'm aware of, but there is a lack of focus on the sexual organs argument.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
                There's no upper body focus argument that I'm aware of, but there is a lack of focus on the sexual organs argument.
                https://forum.casebook.org/showpost....&postcount=686
                Bona fide canonical and then some.

                Comment


                • What part of 'well away from her private parts' don't you understand? That's the point of Gareth's comment.

                  Comment


                  • Ok so what's your argument then? If it's nothing to do with upper body focus on Tabram?
                    Bona fide canonical and then some.

                    Comment


                    • I think were getting caught up in the labels. Sexual homicide, Lust mort etc.

                      The problem is NONE of the ripper victims have evidence of OVERT sexual activity. Yes there is a sexual connotation to the crimes-the victims worked in the sex trade, private parts targeted, reproductive organs removed-areas of traditional feminine beauty (face, breasts) attacked. but no evidence of rape, intercourse etc.


                      yes gun to head if I had to say-they are sex crimes-I think the ripper was probably sexually aroused as he attacked and cut up his victims-and probably masterbated with the trophies he brought home.


                      the problem is that even with the post mortem Serial killers we know of its more evident that they are overtly sexual in nature-necrophilia, storing and reliving the fantasy with parts, dressing the bodies. We don't have that in the ripper so it makes it harder to distinguish the victims, which is the problem we are having now in this discussion.


                      so when true motivation, or deep seated psych reason are not known, and the killer is still unknown-I say just look at the evidence-and keeping in mind what we now know with over a hundred years of SK history and studies on MO, sig and escalation.


                      We know it usually takes a few attempts by the perp to perfect their MO.

                      We know that the sig can change as they escalate there fantasy.



                      So whats the likelihood that the ripper appears on the scene with a fully formed, perfected and mature MO with Nichols? highly unlikely, if not impossible I would say.

                      Soo...
                      We have an early victim with Millwood(probably a prostitute-certainly single and poor) who is attacked by a stranger and stabbed multiple times to the lower body with a small knife. but survived.


                      Then several months later, very close by, we have a definite prostitute, who is attacked by an unknown man, stabbed repeatedly to the body, one to lower body (private parts) with a small knife and probably once (the fatal blow) with a larger knife.

                      so Millwood and Tabram are linked by proximity in time, place, victimology etc. They are also linked by a clear escalation/perfection in MO-small knife only(Millwood), small and large knife (Tabram).


                      Then soon after we have another prostitute, Nichols, attacked by unknown man, with a larger knife(we don't ever see the small knife used again-perfecting the MO), gashed down the body, but with other cuts as well.


                      and with the rest same MO but with escalation in damage to the body.


                      So All this talk of upper and lower, and privates is really meaningless isn't it because not only do later victims have upper and lower body and privates targeted-they start to have the face targeted.



                      Also, the change from stabbing to gashing(from Tabram to Nichols) can also be seen as not only a perfection of MO, but as escalation of fantasy. and is also in line with the killer going from smaller ineffective knife to a larger one. now he can really rip them open. and we never see a smaller knife used again.


                      The bottom line is it was all about the knife with the ripper, and what it could do to the female body. (its why I pretty much discount smith).


                      I would even be so bold to say that I even see a clear transition from Tabram to the others, from stabbing to slashing, in that from the pictures of the victims it looks like he may have started the cut with a stab downwards into the body, and then cut/sawed/sliced as he worked open the wound, hence such a jagged overall appearance of the wound.

                      And he not only just stabbed or ripped:whether its stabbing, poking, ripping, gashing, knicking eyelids, denuding thighs, cutting through organs. He ended up doing all with the knife. it was all about the knife, and what it could do to the female body. Not just stabbing or just gashing.


                      Taken in the context of what was the rippers evolution and his sig,(forget the labels, the areas attacked and the whether or not these are sex crimes) we have a clear path from Millwood to Tabram to Nichols and the rest.
                      Last edited by Abby Normal; 10-30-2018, 10:20 AM.
                      "Is all that we see or seem
                      but a dream within a dream?"

                      -Edgar Allan Poe


                      "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                      quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                      -Frederick G. Abberline

                      Comment


                      • Some good points Abby.

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                        • It is the absence of sexual intercourse or rape these traits are often used to link lust murders to the same offender. It is this trait that indicates that the offender is murdering and mutilating the way they are because of a problem with normal sexual relations. Impotence can factor into a lot of these lust murder cases. Quite simply in 1888, they had very little understanding of what sort of person would do such a thing but they did get it right by suggesting the murders where sexual homicides despite sexual intercourse not taking place. This is still the same for today. As far as I am concerned that showed the medical examiners at the time had brains.
                          Bona fide canonical and then some.

                          Comment


                          • From the Illustrated police news ‘The difficulty of identification arose out of the brutal treatment to which the deceased was manifestly subjected, she being throttled while held down and the face and head so swollen and distorted in consequence that her real features are not discernible.’
                            If Martha was strangled before she was attacked with a knife [note also the clenched fists], isn't this another sign indicative of Jack?
                            If the killer did get the larger knife stuck in the sternum then perhaps he tried next to cut her open within the vaginal region but found the smaller knife was not up to it so he resorted to stabbing her all over the torso instead to relieve his frustrations, before removing the larger knife and fleeing [perhaps something disturbed him].

                            Illustrated police news quoted Sugen p272
                            Last edited by Darryl Kenyon; 10-30-2018, 11:22 AM. Reason: adding

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
                              From the Illustrated police news ‘The difficulty of identification arose out of the brutal treatment to which the deceased was manifestly subjected, she being throttled while held down and the face and head so swollen and distorted in consequence that her real features are not discernible.’
                              If Martha was strangled before she was attacked with a knife [note also the clenched fists], isn't this another sign indicative of Jack?
                              If the killer did get the larger knife stuck in the sternum then perhaps he tried next to cut her open within the vaginal region but found the smaller knife was not up to it so he resorted to stabbing her all over the torso instead to relieve his frustrations, before removing the larger knife and fleeing [perhaps something disturbed him].

                              Illustrated police news quoted Sugen p272
                              That is right. It is very easy to forget that the ripper does appear to have throttled his victims somewhat.

                              Here is a comparison between Tabram and Chapman morgue photos.

                              The similarity of victimology is clearly evident. Their similarities even in death quite striking. Tabram looks as if she was throttled. Also, we know that not all of the wounds on her were accounted for at the inquest, just the ones that caused her death. Tabram even has a stab wound on the right side of her neck.

                              The bruising around Eddowes and Stride's jaws/neck are very clear.
                              Bona fide canonical and then some.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
                                If Martha was strangled before she was attacked with a knife [note also the clenched fists], isn't this another sign indicative of Jack?
                                Throttling possibly comes in at Number 2 in the Victorian "Common things killers do" charts with bashing about the head, shooting and poisoning trailing somewhere behind. Evisceration never quite made the Top 20.
                                Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                                "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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