JtR was Law Enforcement Hypothesis

[Batman]

Thanks to everybody who replied. In response to where I was all this time -- Reddit.com/r/earons doing stuff on the East Area Rapist/Original Night Stalker before he was caught. Happened to me with BTK also. Was doing stuff, on message boards about a case when a few months/year later it broke.

1. I would look for a PC who was maybe fired from the force for fraternising with prostitutes prior to the attacks and who was then looked at for maybe other reasons following the Mary Kelly murder.
2. I would also take another look at Anderson and the Swanson Marginalia again because it involves a Police Seaside Convalescent Home (probably Brighton). I suspect maybe there was an officer here who IDed the suspect claiming he saw JtR. I really wonder who this PC was!
3. JtR was aware of LE beats. Ever more so when it comes to Mitre Square.
4. I suspect he joined the local Ripper groups looking for JtR and did some recon of his targets this way.
5. I would look at Eddowes again who had just been in the drunk tank in a police station.
6. Inside LE knowledge about stake-outs could explain why he avoided all of them.

[MrBarnett]

Hi Jerry, and thanks Seems I still have some fish to fry, questions I need better answers for.

This was also the weekend of the Post Office Robbery which I believe netted the culprits around 1500L, as well as some stamps as I recall. It just seems very unusual, without anyone having any real strong opinion about where "the killer" lodged, at least not at Superior ranks..., without any real cause to suspect imminent Ripper activity in the City, without any prior knowledge that a robbery was happening near Mitre Square, without any reason to be on extra alert...that 3 detectives were searching alleys after midnight.

Of all the documents we can look at today, it appears any real interest in where the killer might have lodged rested within the theory of his being Jewish, and the enclaves within the East End that harboured, in high percentage, populations of Jewish immigrants. Thats not the City.

I dont see any real reason why there would be any heightened sense of urgency about impending activity in the City on that night, unless perhaps the records that covered those areas and time period have never come to light.

Hi Michael,

The eastern edge of the City was very much a Jewish area. Bevis Marks, Houndsditch, Aldgate High Street and one side of Middlesex Street (Petticoat Lane) were all in the City.

According to the press, after the Pizer debacle the 'slaughterman theory' returned to favour, and the City's slaughterhouses were predominantly in that same area.

So if the City police wanted to concentrate their manpower in the part of their jurisdiction that had the highest Jewish population and the greatest number of slaughterhouses, I'd imagine that's exactly where they would have done so.

Gary

[Joshua Rogan]

According to the Star 5th Sept,

"One woman whom he [Leather Apron] assailed some time ago boldly prosecuted him for it, and he was sent up for seven days."

Is there any record of this happening to Piser?

[Michael W Richards]

Also the fact Sam that its Thicke, almost exclusively, who accuses Pizer of being Leather Apron...someone who at that time, was on the radar due to Annie Chapmans murder scene.

I dont know why I thought that I was responding to Sams post Simon, my apologies.

I didnt like how "convinced" Thicke was based on what we know, and Im fairly certain Piser was no Leather Apron anyway.

[Michael W Richards]

Hi Mike and welcome back.

The City Police were watching a suspect that night. Winsdor Street is directly behind the Bishopsgate Police Station in the area of Mrs. Paumier's sighting of a man at Widegate and Sandy's Row. For me, the story below ties in with the James Blenkinsop statement.

Times (London)
Tuesday, 2 October 1888

Shortly after the first horrible murders were committed some weeks ago, special precautions were taken by the City Police authorities with a view to detect the criminal or criminals, several plain-clothes constables being ordered on the beats in the district which has now become so notorious. Instructions were given to the constables to watch any man and woman seen together in suspicious circumstances, and especially to observe any woman who might be seen alone in circumstances of a similar nature. At about the time when the Mitre-square murder was being committed two of the extra men who had been put on duty were in Windsor-street, a thoroughfare about 300 yards off, engaged, pursuant to their instructions, in watching certain houses, it being thought possible that the premises might be resorted to at some time by the murderer. Five minutes after the discovery of the murder in Mitre-square, the two officers referred to heard of it, and the neighbourhood was at once searched by them, unfortunately without result.

Hi Jerry, and thanks Seems I still have some fish to fry, questions I need better answers for.

This was also the weekend of the Post Office Robbery which I believe netted the culprits around 1500L, as well as some stamps as I recall. It just seems very unusual, without anyone having any real strong opinion about where "the killer" lodged, at least not at Superior ranks..., without any real cause to suspect imminent Ripper activity in the City, without any prior knowledge that a robbery was happening near Mitre Square, without any reason to be on extra alert...that 3 detectives were searching alleys after midnight.

Of all the documents we can look at today, it appears any real interest in where the killer might have lodged rested within the theory of his being Jewish, and the enclaves within the East End that harboured, in high percentage, populations of Jewish immigrants. Thats not the City.

I dont see any real reason why there would be any heightened sense of urgency about impending activity in the City on that night, unless perhaps the records that covered those areas and time period have never come to light.

[jerryd]

Its an interesting question in particular with Kate Eddowes murder. Pearce, Harvey, Watkins, Marriot, Halse and Outram, Long, Morris...did I miss anyone?...were all within the vicinity of her murder at the time it happens. Its the only one of the "Canonical" murders that has a plethora of police near... at the time of the murder.

Hi Mike and welcome back.

The City Police were watching a suspect that night. Winsdor Street is directly behind the Bishopsgate Police Station in the area of Mrs. Paumier's sighting of a man at Widegate and Sandy's Row. For me, the story below ties in with the James Blenkinsop statement.

Times (London)
Tuesday, 2 October 1888

Shortly after the first horrible murders were committed some weeks ago, special precautions were taken by the City Police authorities with a view to detect the criminal or criminals, several plain-clothes constables being ordered on the beats in the district which has now become so notorious. Instructions were given to the constables to watch any man and woman seen together in suspicious circumstances, and especially to observe any woman who might be seen alone in circumstances of a similar nature. At about the time when the Mitre-square murder was being committed two of the extra men who had been put on duty were in Windsor-street, a thoroughfare about 300 yards off, engaged, pursuant to their instructions, in watching certain houses, it being thought possible that the premises might be resorted to at some time by the murderer. Five minutes after the discovery of the murder in Mitre-square, the two officers referred to heard of it, and the neighbourhood was at once searched by them, unfortunately without result.

[Michael W Richards]

Okay since the capture of the East Area Rapist/Original Night Stalker (EARONS), who was also the VR (Vasalia Ransacker) and was known as the Golden State Killer (GSK) turned out to have been LE for the VR crimes as an officer in Exeter. He was LE also for the East Area Rapes while working as LE for Auburn. All are around Sacramento.

He was fired from LE and then continued to commit his crimes as ONS. He did these along Santa Barbara.

He even changed his MO.

Many doubted EARONS was LE, including myself.

Here are some of the reasons we had...

1) No time to do it all.
2) Can't travel from one end of Sacramento to the other.
3) LE had all checked out.
4) Statistics.
5) Would be easily recognized.

I think some of you might see in these arguments the same ones for why JtR couldn't be LE.

I think that will have to be revised in light of what we know now.

I know some LE have been suspects in the literature. What about contemporary claims at the time? Was a member of LE ever fingered for the crimes?

Its an interesting question in particular with Kate Eddowes murder. Pearce, Harvey, Watkins, Marriot, Halse and Outram, Long, Morris...did I miss anyone?...were all within the vicinity of her murder at the time it happens. Its the only one of the "Canonical" murders that has a plethora of police near... at the time of the murder.

[Michael W Richards]

Hi Jerry,

Lest we forget—

14 October 1889. Mr. T.H. Haslewood wrote to Scotland Yard that ‘Sergt. T. Thicke [sic]’ should be watched ‘and his whereabouts ascertained upon other dates when certain women have met their end . . .’

HO. A49301/193.

Regards,

Simon

Also the fact Sam that its Thicke, almost exclusively, who accuses Pizer of being Leather Apron...someone who at that time, was on the radar due to Annie Chapmans murder scene.

[Busy Beaver]

The first person I suspected to be the Ripper was a policeman, as it was so strange how many of them were out on the streets patrolling like there was no tomorrow, but the Ripper still managed to kill. If the Ripper was a policeman or had any connection to the Police, then they most likely left the job or had been dismissed before the killings began. Someone on the boards a few years back had also suggested that Jack may have been an employee of the Transport or Railway Police and made his escape via railway lines/tracks. I guess this is still up for discussion/debate.

BB

[Herlock Sholmes]

Did that book ever emerge in the UK by that guy who claimed that Abberline was the ripper? I think that his name was Abad (possibly Spanish or Argentinian?)

Not that im insane enough to buy it of course

[Simon Wood]

Hi Jerry,

Lest we forget—

14 October 1889. Mr. T.H. Haslewood wrote to Scotland Yard that ‘Sergt. T. Thicke [sic]’ should be watched ‘and his whereabouts ascertained upon other dates when certain women have met their end . . .’

HO. A49301/193.

Regards,

Simon

[jerryd]

The Complete and Essential Jack the Ripper
By Paul Begg, John Bennett


Edward Watkins was suspected by an anonymous correspondent from Trowbridge.

George Morris was also suspected as an ex-constable.

[Pcdunn]

Hi, Batman, haven't read much from you of late, glad to see you!

Interesting idea, and it would explain why no one ever saw anyone at the scenes of the crimes. If you were an EastEnder, had spotted a copper near a body, would you say so? Point taken...

[Kattrup]

I don’t think it was ever seriously considered at the time. Nor ever really. I think abberline has been put forward, but then again, who hasn’t? Lol.

It ses a contemporary theory that the killer might be dressed as a police officer. With the heightened police presence in Whitechapel, newspaper articles speculated that one way for the killer to gain the confidence of new victims and slip through the dragnet would be to disguise himself as a cop.

I can’t recall it ever being suggested that he actually was a cop, though. Edit: I see Joshua Rogan has mentioned Thick, I’d forgotten about him. An interesting case.

Modern discussions of the GSG have made some mention of the fact that many cops carried chalk, because it was used to mark when they went on their beats.

[Joshua Rogan]

I know some LE have been suspects in the literature. What about contemporary claims at the time? Was a member of LE ever fingered for the crimes?

http://www.casebook.org/ripper_media/book_reviews/non-fiction/cjmorley/183.html

Sergeant William Thick was accused of being Jack the Ripper by a member of the public, Mr H.T Haslewood, who wrote to the police on the 10 September 1889 saying that he had very good grounds to believe that, 'The person who committed the Whitechapel murders was a member of the police force', and who's name he would forward. Haslewood admitted that his suspicion was based on very slight evidence, but with the help of the police records could ascertain where this person was on the respective days of the murders. Haslewood wrote to the police again a few days later, this time naming his suspect as Sergeant T. Thicke, misspelling Thick's name. He stated that, 'Thicke should be watched, and his whereabouts ascertained upon other dates where certain woman have met their end'. Written in the margin of the letter was the official police response to the accusation, 'I think it is plainly rubbish, perhaps prompted by spite'.