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JtR was Law Enforcement Hypothesis

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  • JtR was Law Enforcement Hypothesis

    Okay since the capture of the East Area Rapist/Original Night Stalker (EARONS), who was also the VR (Vasalia Ransacker) and was known as the Golden State Killer (GSK) turned out to have been LE for the VR crimes as an officer in Exeter. He was LE also for the East Area Rapes while working as LE for Auburn. All are around Sacramento.

    He was fired from LE and then continued to commit his crimes as ONS. He did these along Santa Barbara.

    He even changed his MO.

    Many doubted EARONS was LE, including myself.

    Here are some of the reasons we had...

    1) No time to do it all.
    2) Can't travel from one end of Sacramento to the other.
    3) LE had all checked out.
    4) Statistics.
    5) Would be easily recognized.

    I think some of you might see in these arguments the same ones for why JtR couldn't be LE.

    I think that will have to be revised in light of what we know now.

    I know some LE have been suspects in the literature. What about contemporary claims at the time? Was a member of LE ever fingered for the crimes?
    Bona fide canonical and then some.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Batman View Post
    Okay since the capture of the East Area Rapist/Original Night Stalker (EARONS), who was also the VR (Vasalia Ransacker) and was known as the Golden State Killer (GSK) turned out to have been LE for the VR crimes as an officer in Exeter. He was LE also for the East Area Rapes while working as LE for Auburn. All are around Sacramento.

    He was fired from LE and then continued to commit his crimes as ONS. He did these along Santa Barbara.

    He even changed his MO.

    Many doubted EARONS was LE, including myself.

    Here are some of the reasons we had...

    1) No time to do it all.
    2) Can't travel from one end of Sacramento to the other.
    3) LE had all checked out.
    4) Statistics.
    5) Would be easily recognized.

    I think some of you might see in these arguments the same ones for why JtR couldn't be LE.

    I think that will have to be revised in light of what we know now.

    I know some LE have been suspects in the literature. What about contemporary claims at the time? Was a member of LE ever fingered for the crimes?
    Hi Batman
    I don’t think it was ever seriously considered at the time. Nor ever really. I think abberline has been put forward, but then again, who hasn’t? Lol.

    The GSK was also never seriously considered to be a cop. And I believe is the first serial killer to be a cop? I think there have been corrupt cops that have killed people for various reasons outside of there LE duties, but I’m not sure if there’s ever been a pure serial killer who was cop during the time like GSK.
    Thank god.

    Plus keep in mind he didn’t last very long and the worst phase of his crimes came after he was fired from being a police man.
    "Is all that we see or seem
    but a dream within a dream?"

    -Edgar Allan Poe


    "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
    quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

    -Frederick G. Abberline

    Comment


    • #3
      I vaguely recall this hypothesis being vigorously rejected at Casebook a few years ago. Something about how the police departments were very meticulous about tracking the activities of their officers.

      Some of the Ripper killings, especially Mitre Square, appear to show detailed knowledge of police beats, but Jack could have learned these from a lifetime of living in Whitechapel, or he might even have relied on his victims for their knowledge of police beats.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Batman View Post
        I know some LE have been suspects in the literature. What about contemporary claims at the time? Was a member of LE ever fingered for the crimes?

        http://www.casebook.org/ripper_media...orley/183.html
        Sergeant William Thick was accused of being Jack the Ripper by a member of the public, Mr H.T Haslewood, who wrote to the police on the 10 September 1889 saying that he had very good grounds to believe that, 'The person who committed the Whitechapel murders was a member of the police force', and who's name he would forward. Haslewood admitted that his suspicion was based on very slight evidence, but with the help of the police records could ascertain where this person was on the respective days of the murders. Haslewood wrote to the police again a few days later, this time naming his suspect as Sergeant T. Thicke, misspelling Thick's name. He stated that, 'Thicke should be watched, and his whereabouts ascertained upon other dates where certain woman have met their end'. Written in the margin of the letter was the official police response to the accusation, 'I think it is plainly rubbish, perhaps prompted by spite'.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
          I don’t think it was ever seriously considered at the time. Nor ever really. I think abberline has been put forward, but then again, who hasn’t? Lol.
          It ses a contemporary theory that the killer might be dressed as a police officer. With the heightened police presence in Whitechapel, newspaper articles speculated that one way for the killer to gain the confidence of new victims and slip through the dragnet would be to disguise himself as a cop.

          I can’t recall it ever being suggested that he actually was a cop, though. Edit: I see Joshua Rogan has mentioned Thick, I’d forgotten about him. An interesting case.

          Modern discussions of the GSG have made some mention of the fact that many cops carried chalk, because it was used to mark when they went on their beats.
          Last edited by Kattrup; 05-25-2018, 04:45 AM. Reason: Forgot Thick

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi, Batman, haven't read much from you of late, glad to see you!

            Interesting idea, and it would explain why no one ever saw anyone at the scenes of the crimes. If you were an EastEnder, had spotted a copper near a body, would you say so? Point taken...
            Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
            ---------------
            Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
            ---------------

            Comment


            • #7
              The Complete and Essential Jack the Ripper
              By Paul Begg, John Bennett



              Edward Watkins was suspected by an anonymous correspondent from Trowbridge.

              George Morris was also suspected as an ex-constable.
              Last edited by jerryd; 05-25-2018, 06:04 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi Jerry,

                Lest we forget—

                14 October 1889. Mr. T.H. Haslewood wrote to Scotland Yard that ‘Sergt. T. Thicke [sic]’ should be watched ‘and his whereabouts ascertained upon other dates when certain women have met their end . . .’

                HO. A49301/193.

                Regards,

                Simon

                Comment


                • #9
                  Did that book ever emerge in the UK by that guy who claimed that Abberline was the ripper? I think that his name was Abad (possibly Spanish or Argentinian?)

                  Not that im insane enough to buy it of course
                  Regards

                  Herlock






                  "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact!"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The first person I suspected to be the Ripper was a policeman, as it was so strange how many of them were out on the streets patrolling like there was no tomorrow, but the Ripper still managed to kill. If the Ripper was a policeman or had any connection to the Police, then they most likely left the job or had been dismissed before the killings began. Someone on the boards a few years back had also suggested that Jack may have been an employee of the Transport or Railway Police and made his escape via railway lines/tracks. I guess this is still up for discussion/debate.

                    BB

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
                      Hi Jerry,

                      Lest we forget—

                      14 October 1889. Mr. T.H. Haslewood wrote to Scotland Yard that ‘Sergt. T. Thicke [sic]’ should be watched ‘and his whereabouts ascertained upon other dates when certain women have met their end . . .’

                      HO. A49301/193.

                      Regards,

                      Simon
                      Also the fact Sam that its Thicke, almost exclusively, who accuses Pizer of being Leather Apron...someone who at that time, was on the radar due to Annie Chapmans murder scene.
                      Michael Richards

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Batman View Post
                        Okay since the capture of the East Area Rapist/Original Night Stalker (EARONS), who was also the VR (Vasalia Ransacker) and was known as the Golden State Killer (GSK) turned out to have been LE for the VR crimes as an officer in Exeter. He was LE also for the East Area Rapes while working as LE for Auburn. All are around Sacramento.

                        He was fired from LE and then continued to commit his crimes as ONS. He did these along Santa Barbara.

                        He even changed his MO.

                        Many doubted EARONS was LE, including myself.

                        Here are some of the reasons we had...

                        1) No time to do it all.
                        2) Can't travel from one end of Sacramento to the other.
                        3) LE had all checked out.
                        4) Statistics.
                        5) Would be easily recognized.

                        I think some of you might see in these arguments the same ones for why JtR couldn't be LE.

                        I think that will have to be revised in light of what we know now.

                        I know some LE have been suspects in the literature. What about contemporary claims at the time? Was a member of LE ever fingered for the crimes?

                        Its an interesting question in particular with Kate Eddowes murder. Pearce, Harvey, Watkins, Marriot, Halse and Outram, Long, Morris...did I miss anyone?...were all within the vicinity of her murder at the time it happens. Its the only one of the "Canonical" murders that has a plethora of police near... at the time of the murder.
                        Michael Richards

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
                          Its an interesting question in particular with Kate Eddowes murder. Pearce, Harvey, Watkins, Marriot, Halse and Outram, Long, Morris...did I miss anyone?...were all within the vicinity of her murder at the time it happens. Its the only one of the "Canonical" murders that has a plethora of police near... at the time of the murder.

                          Hi Mike and welcome back.

                          The City Police were watching a suspect that night. Winsdor Street is directly behind the Bishopsgate Police Station in the area of Mrs. Paumier's sighting of a man at Widegate and Sandy's Row. For me, the story below ties in with the James Blenkinsop statement.

                          Times (London)
                          Tuesday, 2 October 1888

                          Shortly after the first horrible murders were committed some weeks ago, special precautions were taken by the City Police authorities with a view to detect the criminal or criminals, several plain-clothes constables being ordered on the beats in the district which has now become so notorious. Instructions were given to the constables to watch any man and woman seen together in suspicious circumstances, and especially to observe any woman who might be seen alone in circumstances of a similar nature. At about the time when the Mitre-square murder was being committed two of the extra men who had been put on duty were in Windsor-street, a thoroughfare about 300 yards off, engaged, pursuant to their instructions, in watching certain houses, it being thought possible that the premises might be resorted to at some time by the murderer. Five minutes after the discovery of the murder in Mitre-square, the two officers referred to heard of it, and the neighbourhood was at once searched by them, unfortunately without result.
                          Last edited by jerryd; 05-26-2018, 08:16 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jerryd View Post
                            Hi Mike and welcome back.

                            The City Police were watching a suspect that night. Winsdor Street is directly behind the Bishopsgate Police Station in the area of Mrs. Paumier's sighting of a man at Widegate and Sandy's Row. For me, the story below ties in with the James Blenkinsop statement.

                            Times (London)
                            Tuesday, 2 October 1888

                            Shortly after the first horrible murders were committed some weeks ago, special precautions were taken by the City Police authorities with a view to detect the criminal or criminals, several plain-clothes constables being ordered on the beats in the district which has now become so notorious. Instructions were given to the constables to watch any man and woman seen together in suspicious circumstances, and especially to observe any woman who might be seen alone in circumstances of a similar nature. At about the time when the Mitre-square murder was being committed two of the extra men who had been put on duty were in Windsor-street, a thoroughfare about 300 yards off, engaged, pursuant to their instructions, in watching certain houses, it being thought possible that the premises might be resorted to at some time by the murderer. Five minutes after the discovery of the murder in Mitre-square, the two officers referred to heard of it, and the neighbourhood was at once searched by them, unfortunately without result.
                            Hi Jerry, and thanks Seems I still have some fish to fry, questions I need better answers for.

                            This was also the weekend of the Post Office Robbery which I believe netted the culprits around 1500L, as well as some stamps as I recall. It just seems very unusual, without anyone having any real strong opinion about where "the killer" lodged, at least not at Superior ranks..., without any real cause to suspect imminent Ripper activity in the City, without any prior knowledge that a robbery was happening near Mitre Square, without any reason to be on extra alert...that 3 detectives were searching alleys after midnight.

                            Of all the documents we can look at today, it appears any real interest in where the killer might have lodged rested within the theory of his being Jewish, and the enclaves within the East End that harboured, in high percentage, populations of Jewish immigrants. Thats not the City.

                            I dont see any real reason why there would be any heightened sense of urgency about impending activity in the City on that night, unless perhaps the records that covered those areas and time period have never come to light.
                            Michael Richards

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
                              Also the fact Sam that its Thicke, almost exclusively, who accuses Pizer of being Leather Apron...someone who at that time, was on the radar due to Annie Chapmans murder scene.
                              I dont know why I thought that I was responding to Sams post Simon, my apologies.

                              I didnt like how "convinced" Thicke was based on what we know, and Im fairly certain Piser was no Leather Apron anyway.
                              Michael Richards

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