Same motive = same killer

[Abby Normal]

I don’t know about anyone else but at a gut level I’m trying to imagine two of these guys lurking about at the same time trying to ruse unfortunates into a place where they can kill them and cut up there bodies. I just don’t see it.
I’m not feeling it.
Try to put yourself there try to imagine it. At a visceral level does two of these creatures simultaneously really work for anyone?

[GUT]

I don’t know about anyone else but at a gut level I’m trying to imagine two of these guys lurking about at the same time trying to ruse unfortunates into a place where they can kill them and cut up there bodies. I just don’t see it.
I’m not feeling it.
Try to put yourself there try to imagine it. At a visceral level does two of these creatures simultaneously really work for anyone?

I dont see why not.

[Fisherman]

I dont see why not.

Tw serial killers in the same town at the same time, both rusing prostitutes into places where they can cut them up.

That would be a very large coincidence - but it could happen.

But when both men eviscerate, when both men cut abdomens from ribs to pubes, when both men take out uteri, when both men take out hearts, when both men steal rings off the fingers of their victims, when both men remove the abdominal wall by cutting it away in large flaps of flesh, when victims in both series have parts of their colons missing, when both men seem to concentrate their efforts on prostitutes, when neither man engage in physical torture to any visible extent, when both men are said to be skilled enough to be compared to surgeons ...

...has it not become way too coincidental at that stage, Gut?

[Fisherman]

Since it has been asked what the suggested Torsoripper killer did between 1874 and 1884, and then between 1884 and 1887, I would like to present the killing years of the so called Spokane serial killer, Robert Yates.
Yates killed his first two victims in 1975.
Then he did not kill again until thirteen years later, in 1988, whe one victim fell prey.
And then, there was an eight-year hiatus, until 1996, when he killed twice. At that time, the process was unstoppable, and Yates killed six women in 1997 and five in 1998.

During all of this, he was having a family life, his wife giving birth to five kids.

The similarities with Charles Lechmere are there.

[John Wheat]

He grew up in the street, John. His mother lived there on a number of occasions, both with Charles and later in life. So if Charles took piano lessons as a boy, the chance is a large one that he did so in Pinchin Street.

Did you know that Ed Kemper buried a head where his mother lived? No? He made some sort of joke about how people looked up to her. That was before Kemper killed his mother, of course. I have no idea whether he played the piano, though.

How about Bury? Did he live in Pinchin Street? Or play the piano?

Bury didn't live in Pinchin Street but then I'm not suggesting he was The Torso Killer. It mean very little that Lechmere lived in pinching Street.

[Fisherman]

Bury didn't live in Pinchin Street but then I'm not suggesting he was The Torso Killer. It mean very little that Lechmere lived in pinching Street.

Yes, that is a difference between us. Or two. I am suggesting that Lechmere was the torso killer as well as the Ripper. And I am also suggesting that
since a torso was placed in the street where he grew up, it would have meant something to him. There are lots of examples of serial killers who have these kinds of hangups, tied to their formative years.

[Abby Normal]

Tw serial killers in the same town at the same time, both rusing prostitutes into places where they can cut them up.

That would be a very large coincidence - but it could happen.

But when both men eviscerate, when both men cut abdomens from ribs to pubes, when both men take out uteri, when both men take out hearts, when both men steal rings off the fingers of their victims, when both men remove the abdominal wall by cutting it away in large flaps of flesh, when victims in both series have parts of their colons missing, when both men seem to concentrate their efforts on prostitutes, when neither man engage in physical torture to any visible extent, when both men are said to be skilled enough to be compared to surgeons ...

...has it not become way too coincidental at that stage, Gut?

Jackson is the link between the two series in terms of sig. pinchin in terms of geography.

[Fisherman]

Jackson is the link between the two series in terms of sig. pinchin in terms of geography.

The 1873 torso is actually every bit as telling as is Jackson, once we know what this killer was doing, Abby. But I agree that Jackson is very important. And obviously, Pinchin Street ties the two series together on the map, no doubt about that.

It´s either one of the most perplexing coincidences in criminal history - or not.

[RockySullivan]

not even 200 pages and we are already on lechmere

[Fisherman]

not even 200 pages and we are already on lechmere

I think that in the end, all threads out here will jointly end up at his doorstep. If you want to discuss that with me, you know what to do.

[Harry D]

not even 200 pages and we are already on lechmere

I'm surprised it took that long, tbh.

[RockySullivan]

I think that in the end, all threads out here will jointly end up at his doorstep. If you want to discuss that with me, you know what to do.

I'm sure they will

[Abby Normal]

The 1873 torso is actually every bit as telling as is Jackson, once we know what this killer was doing, Abby. But I agree that Jackson is very important. And obviously, Pinchin Street ties the two series together on the map, no doubt about that.

It´s either one of the most perplexing coincidences in criminal history - or not.

The more I think of it, the more I think that with the torsos, he was using a murder house perhaps to the west, and the rippers he was doing closer to where he lived-quick fixes as it were.

and with the pinchin torso in the ripper territory, and being the last one, it might be his final statement-or hes felt like hes done, accomplished what he set out to do, and tying them together.

then both series end.

and the torsorippers done.

[Fisherman]

I'm surprised it took that long, tbh.

Well, Harry you are of course perfectly welcome to add any other suspect that has a link to any of the murder sites in any of the series to the discussion.

And you have to admit, that for somebody as hellbent as me on accusing the squeaky clean family man Lechmere of these heinous crimes, it is very interesting to find that the torso series was rounded off with a victim placed on the very street where he grew up. It does smack of circle - and case - closed.

One of the other victims in the series was placed in the cellar vaults of the New Scotland Yard - and it just so happens that young Charles during his formative years had a policeman stepfather.

The implications and finds have so far not done the Lechmere theory any harm at all. We can frown at it and say that it is not important, as John Wheat decided on (surprise, surprise) - but I really don´t think that John has the first clue about whether the Pinchin Street site was chosen to make a point on Lechmere´s behalf or not. We may speculate either way, but we cannot be certain of anything on the evidence existing.

All we can do is to look at the respective suspects and ask ourselves whether there are any connections between the details of the torso series and any of them, and there certainly are such connections in Lechmere´s case.

That is why he is - and should be - part of the discussion on this thread.

I don´t know who comes in at second place...? Hutchinson, for having been in Dorset Street the evening before Kelly died? Or Kosminsky, for having had a relative living relatively (excuse that pun) close to the Stride murder site? Take your pick! I can´t see why any of these other suspects should be discussed out here, since they have no bearing on the torso thread by way of implication. Who would that be? Chapman, for having premonitions about how the police would catch him, therefore taking his revenge in advance, fifteen years earlier, by dumping the Whitehall torso?

Nope, I think that Lechmere alone deserves a place on the Torsoripper threads. It´s perhaps a bummer, but it is what it is!

[RockySullivan]

And you have to admit, that for somebody as hellbent as me on accusing the squeaky clean family man Lechmere of these heinous crimes, it is very interesting to find that the torso series was rounded off with a victim placed on the very street where he grew up. It does smack of circle - and case - closed.

and that is the sole reason for christfish's interest in the torsos, they fit his suspect (in a far fetched manner).