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Was Annie Chapman a rotund woman?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
    Do you think Phillips' failure to specify the location of the third flap means it was too rude to say even after the women and children had left the room?
    Possibly. Two flaps from the anterior part of the abdomen and "another" from the... well, "posterior" flows naturally from "anterior" and sounds slightly rude, but there's no "posterior abdomen" as far as I know. I'd suggest, therefore, that the missing term was "pubic region", which is that part of the abdomen that extends from below the navel to just above the external genitalia. I daresay that "pubic region" might have been deemed a little too risqué for Victorian ears!
    Kind regards, Sam Flynn

    "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
      Got it in one. Annie's left side was nearer the fence, so working from the right hand side would have been the natural thing for him to do.
      So Chapman was not movable but Kelly was?

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Pierre View Post
        So Chapman was not movable but Kelly was?
        He doesn't appear to have moved Nichols or Eddowes, either. What with time-pressure and and the public locations, why faff about with moving the bodies around, when he could cut them open just as easily, and get the job done more quickly, from one side?

        Such restrictions didn't apply at Miller's Court, so he was free to move the body about if he so chose.
        Kind regards, Sam Flynn

        "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Pierre View Post
          So Chapman was not movable but Kelly was?
          Unlike with Kelly, there's no evidence that shows Chapman was moved. As with the other outdoor victims, there was nothing to impede the killer of Chapman getting into a comfortable working position, whereas Kelly was killed on the far side of her bed, meaning the killer needed to move her closer or risk putting his back out.

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          • #20
            It should be noted that for a right handed surgeon (or knifeman) the right hand side of the patient (or victim) is easiest to open the abdomen using a standard midline incision. Kelly's wall would have made things awkward without moving her

            Paul

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            • #21
              i was wrong sam. i must have been thinking of some victim other than kate where the navel was avoided. i looked into joshua's question, and his suggestion is closer than mine. in a report from chief inspector swanson to the home office on oct 19th, he does write about the missing navel.
              there,s nothing new, only the unexplored

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              • #22
                At the time of her death Annie Chapman wasn't at all "rotund." In fact, the reverse was true. Wynne Baxter remarked at the inquest:

                "She showed signs of great deprivation, as if she'd been badly fed."

                I think, however, it could be argued that JtR targeted the vulnerable. For instance, Nichols had been drinking, Chapman had been ill and was emaciated...

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                • #23
                  Wondered if she was suffering Edema.

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edema
                  My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by John G View Post
                    At the time of her death Annie Chapman wasn't at all "rotund." In fact, the reverse was true. Wynne Baxter remarked at the inquest:

                    "She showed signs of great deprivation, as if she'd been badly fed."

                    I think, however, it could be argued that JtR targeted the vulnerable. For instance, Nichols had been drinking, Chapman had been ill and was emaciated...
                    Dr Phillips describing Chapman;

                    "Although the deceased was fatty there were signs of great deprivation"

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
                      Dr Phillips describing Chapman;

                      "Although the deceased was fatty there were signs of great deprivation"
                      Well that doesn't even make any sense; it's contradictory. And not according to The Times, which I quoted above. Source please.
                      Last edited by John G; 08-22-2017, 01:22 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Sorry John, it's from the Daily News, 14th Sept.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
                          Dr Phillips describing Chapman;

                          "Although the deceased was fatty there were signs of great deprivation"
                          Being "fatty" doesn't mean that she was "a fatty", so what Phillips said needn't have been contradictory. There's a body type now referred to as TOFI (Thin Outside, Fat Inside) where large amounts of fat are hidden from view by being deposited in the internal organs, esp. the liver, rather than on the belly and hips.
                          Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                          "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                            Being "fatty" doesn't mean that she was "a fatty", so what Phillips said needn't have been contradictory. There's a body type now referred to as TOFI (Thin Outside, Fat Inside) where large amounts of fat are hidden from view by being deposited in the internal organs, esp. the liver, rather than on the belly and hips.
                            Yes, Alan Partridge had a fat back, but you wouldn`t think it, looking at him.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                              Being "fatty" doesn't mean that she was "a fatty", so what Phillips said needn't have been contradictory. There's a body type now referred to as TOFI (Thin Outside, Fat Inside) where large amounts of fat are hidden from view by being deposited in the internal organs, esp. the liver, rather than on the belly and hips.
                              Ah, yes. "Skinny Fat". That's how I know it. I first heard the term at weigh-in for a weightlifting meet in Las Vegas, in 2003. A guy stripped to his undies to get on the scale and another guy said, "You're skinny-fat. How long have you been training?" Understandably, we had to pull the skinny-fat guy off of Mr. smart ass. Then skinny-fat proceeded to win the bronze (barely missing the silver medal to some guy who's really interested in Jack the Ripper) while Mr. smart ass bombed out in the snatch (google it - it's not a pornographic). Good times.

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                              • #30
                                I doubt there were too many fat people in such an impoverished area as that. And certainly not the standard of "fat" we have today.

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