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  • #31
    Read through the thread but
    "I can't get no satisfaction" ...from it
    Its simply grasping too far..isn't it.?
    No doubt there's an end product to it all, and it will all come together?

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    • #32
      Originally posted by GUT View Post
      Sums it up nicely in my opinion.
      Thanks Gut. I don't think I exaggerated.

      Mike
      huh?

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      • #33
        Not for nothing is good for nothing.

        Miss Marple
        .

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        • #34
          Pierre.

          You tell us that this thread is not about the GSG and accuse others of going "off topic" for mentioning it; yet you were the first one to do so. If this thread is not about the GSG, why make reference to it at all?

          As you rightly point out, there were two claimed versions of the graffito:

          Halse alludes to "not the men that will be blamed for nothing"

          Long says "the men that will not be blamed for nothing"

          Neither has "not for nothing"

          What is the relevance of this thread to "Ripper Discussions" (which is where you have posted it) if references to the GSG are off topic?

          Moving on from that, I'm not sure why you've included literary references here. Someone with a more than basic education would allude to "men who", not "men that".

          "Not for nothing" is a claim or statement that something has been done or said with good reason but the relevance to the Whitechapel Murders eludes me (as it has others) because it doesn't appear except in the GSG where the words are separated by others.

          If you start extracting words from sentences you change the meaning, so why those words? Why not these:

          "The Juwes are nothing".
          "The Juwes are not men"
          "The Juwes are the men that will"
          "The Juwes are the men that will not"
          "The Juwes are blamed, not nothing"
          "The men will be blamed"
          "The men will be nothing"

          They are all combinations or words which appear in the GSG in that order.

          We don't know (thanks to Warren) the exact wording but no version has ever been found which includes the phrase "not for nothing" - so what is the point of this?
          Regards, Bridewell.

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          • #35
            Interesting, Bridewell.

            Perhaps the GSG author should have phrased it as "Not for nothing the Juwes / Judges will be blamed for..." [What? "Nothing" yet again? I'm not sure it is any clearer this way than either of the two original phrasings.]

            I did notice​ that the words "not," "for," and "nothing" all appear in the same sequence in both possible transcriptions of the chalked message, though with words missing in between them.
            Pat D.
            ---------------
            Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
            ---------------

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            • #36
              this one is weird even by the standards of Pierre threads

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              • #37
                [QUOTE=Bridewell;417217]

                Pierre.

                You tell us that this thread is not about the GSG and accuse others of going "off topic" for mentioning it; yet you were the first one to do so. If this thread is not about the GSG, why make reference to it at all?
                Naturally I had to mention it to explain that this is not a discussion about it.

                As you rightly point out, there were two claimed versions of the graffito:

                Halse alludes to "not the men that will be blamed for nothing"

                Long says "the men that will not be blamed for nothing"
                And now you directly start discussing it anyway.

                Neither has "not for nothing"
                And this is not a discussion about it.

                What is the relevance of this thread to "Ripper Discussions" (which is where you have posted it) if references to the GSG are off topic?
                The relevance is to examine possible uses of an idiomatic expression in Victorian times.

                Moving on from that, I'm not sure why you've included literary references here. Someone with a more than basic education would allude to "men who", not "men that".
                "Not for nothing" is a claim or statement that something has been done or said with good reason but the relevance to the Whitechapel Murders eludes me (as it has others) because it doesn't appear except in the GSG where the words are separated by others.
                Right time and place and an interesting idiom are interesting and may help our understanding of the circumstances in 1888.

                If you start extracting words from sentences you change the meaning, so why those words?
                No, you see, the function of the words "not for nothing" is very relevant for our possible interpretations.

                "Not for nothing" is an idiom with a specific function and meaning.

                Why not these:

                "The Juwes are nothing".
                "The Juwes are not men"
                "The Juwes are the men that will"
                "The Juwes are the men that will not"
                "The Juwes are blamed, not nothing"
                "The men will be blamed"
                "The men will be nothing"

                Because they are not idioms.


                They are all combinations or words which appear in the GSG in that order.

                We don't know (thanks to Warren) the exact wording but no version has ever been found which includes the phrase "not for nothing" - so what is the point of this?
                The idiom is interesting and there are many uses of it. So if you have found some examples of it from the East End in Victorian times, please feel free to share them.

                Cheers, Pierre

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by The Good Michael View Post
                  Thanks Gut. I don't think I exaggerated.

                  Mike
                  Nor do I.
                  G U T

                  There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                    Because Pierre has a found something that his suspect wrote that uses the phrase not for nothing.
                    the silence is deafening.

                    is this true pierre? did your suspect use that phrase?
                    "Is all that we see or seem
                    but a dream within a dream?"

                    -Edgar Allan Poe


                    "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                    quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                    -Frederick G. Abberline

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                    • #40
                      Staying out of most of these threads at present as busy writing up stuff.

                      However the term "not for nothing" which Pierre as strangely introduced is neither cockney or general London in usage or history.
                      It appears to be a rather general term, basically mean there is a good reason for.

                      In addition I have to agree with others here that I do not see the relevance to this particular part of the forum.

                      I do wish Pierre that you would be more open with the forum in general and say what you are looking at. I for once have no idea!


                      Steve

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                      • #41
                        Pierre stop pissing about and name your suspect.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by John Wheat View Post
                          Pierre stop pissing about and name your suspect.
                          It'll never happen.
                          G U T

                          There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            I started coming back to the forums when our friend Pierre was on extended leave - possibly for mental health reasons. Now he's back, playing his imbecile games and wasting the boards' time and energies again, while contributing nothing.

                            The phrase 'not for nothing' is extremely common, used widely in English, and no clues will be gleaned from citing examples of its use. (And if you think that's not so, go do your own research, stop getting others to do it for you. Lazy git.)

                            The phrase also appears nowhere in the GSG. End of story. 'Nothing' is - to this day - used widely as a hideous substitute for 'anything' by the slovenly inbred creatures who populate the East End - as I, an inhabitant of that cesspit, can happily confirm.

                            Pierre has repeatedly shown himself to be almost comically bad when it comes to textual analysis.

                            He's a charlatan, a fraud, a fake, and a timewaster.

                            MODS - why let this hypocritical deceitful oaf ruin the boards any longer?

                            To cite good old King Lear, Nothing will come of nothing. But he then urges Cordelia to 'speak again'. I, on the other hand, urge our Pierre to put a sock in it.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by GUT View Post
                              It'll never happen.
                              Probably not but that's not going to stop me requesting.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                "I will give you money,but,not for nothing".

                                "I will give you help,but,not for nothing".

                                "I will go with you,but,not for nothing"
                                All Victorian expressions
                                The Juwes kill ,but,not for nothing

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