Apron placement as intimidation?

[Abby Normal]

hi Harry
good question.

IMHO the GSG has everything to do with the murders, as its a direct (at least partly) reflection on the lipski event.

However, I think you mean specifically mention something about the murders of either stride or eddowes? if so I'm not sure if any other serial killers whos messages don't mention anything specifically about the murders.

The zodiac sent some letters that don't reference any murders but then again he sent so many that did and it had already been established authenticity which were his so not sure if those examples count.

Its a good question and I see what your getting at. and yes the rarity of it is a check mark against the GSG authenticity IMHO.

Ill look around at other SK messages and see if I can find any that dont.

Hi again Harry
Son of sams first letter dosnt really reference specifically a previous murder directly. However, it is general rant and violent so not sure if that counts.

I'm going to keep looking because its a great and relevant question.

[Abby Normal]

Any examples of communicative killers whose messages had nothing to do with the murders?

hi Harry
good question.

IMHO the GSG has everything to do with the murders, as its a direct (at least partly) reflection on the lipski event.

However, I think you mean specifically mention something about the murders of either stride or eddowes? if so I'm not sure if any other serial killers whos messages don't mention anything specifically about the murders.

The zodiac sent some letters that don't reference any murders but then again he sent so many that did and it had already been established authenticity which were his so not sure if those examples count.

Its a good question and I see what your getting at. and yes the rarity of it is a check mark against the GSG authenticity IMHO.

Ill look around at other SK messages and see if I can find any that dont.

[Abby Normal]

Greetings again Abby,

It's heartening to see so many of the recent posts on this thread coming to grips with the issue of anti-Semitism.

I think the primary reason for the graffito was that an anti-Semitic killer was literally spelling things out: that the anti-Jewish rioters who had taken to the streets post-Chapman had been correct in blaming the murders on the Jews. Indeed, the basic assumption of the rioters, was commonly-held.

Such was the temperature on the street, and it seems that it was part of the reason why police officials came to their conclusion that the murderer had written the message. It might not translate seamlessly for us as burghers of 2018, but by coming to terms with the historical period and the locale we should be able to get the gist of it.

Certainly, there are extant police memos following the double-event, from Swanson and Warren which, to varying degrees, show that the police were grappling with a nascent understanding of what was going on: that a maniac was trying to target the standing of the Jewish community - as the leadership of that community well understood. Arnold was certainly sensitive to the powder keg racial dynamics, at the very least, and might be broadly included along with Swanson and Warren.

Keeping in mind too the murder locations, it would seem, that on the night of the double-event Jack The Ripper said it every which way he could think of, short of calling a press conference.

On a tangential note I'd just like to take the chance to thank you and 'Sam Flynn' for your ongoing kind words in support of my research - in particular, your Casebook posts of January.

I will be exploring the themes touched on above in detail, in the expanded edition of my book which is due out at the end of the month.

Stephen
http://www.timesofisrael.com/were-th...mitic-frameup/

Hi Stephen
Great to see you posting again! Best of luck with your expanded book and thanks again for sending it to me before.

I was just wondering if you've done anymore research and or found out anything more on Aussie Hutch?

as you know I'm extremely intrigued by him.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Sam
I don’t know if that really makes any difference. I think either blood or excrement would take about the same time to wipe off, mere seconds.

I beg to differ, Abby. Perhaps you should try smearing your hands in someone else's faeces some time... then again, perhaps not

[Abby Normal]

Not if he'd smeared excrement over them, which he almost certainly had.

Hi Sam
I don’t know if that really makes any difference. I think either blood or excrement would take about the same time to wipe off, mere seconds.

And actually if he had gotten it on his hands it only points toward the killer wanting to wipe his hands immediately after he was done with eddowes, and before he left the crime scene. First of all because it’s just human nature to want to clean off your hands of something nasty like blood and or excrement as soon as you could and also because he didn’t want to get caught literally red handed.

Plus, if the anon church street sighting was real, and I think it was, then he had already been spotted wiping his hands away from a crime scene, and didn’t want to make that mistake again.

[Harry D]

Any examples of communicative killers whose messages had nothing to do with the murders?

[Abby Normal]

Abby,

Do you think the choice of the double event murder sites - Stride by the IWMEC and the Arbeiter Fraint premises, Eddowes behind the Great Synagogue - was random and had nothing to do with their 'Jewishness'?

Gary

Probably yes.

[cnr]

the anti Jewish situation

Greetings again Abby,

It's heartening to see so many of the recent posts on this thread coming to grips with the issue of anti-Semitism.

I think the primary reason for the graffito was that an anti-Semitic killer was literally spelling things out: that the anti-Jewish rioters who had taken to the streets post-Chapman had been correct in blaming the murders on the Jews. Indeed, the basic assumption of the rioters, was commonly-held.

Such was the temperature on the street, and it seems that it was part of the reason why police officials came to their conclusion that the murderer had written the message. It might not translate seamlessly for us as burghers of 2018, but by coming to terms with the historical period and the locale we should be able to get the gist of it.

Certainly, there are extant police memos following the double-event, from Swanson and Warren which, to varying degrees, show that the police were grappling with a nascent understanding of what was going on: that a maniac was trying to target the standing of the Jewish community - as the leadership of that community well understood. Arnold was certainly sensitive to the powder keg racial dynamics, at the very least, and might be broadly included along with Swanson and Warren.

Keeping in mind too the murder locations, it would seem, that on the night of the double-event Jack The Ripper said it every which way he could think of, short of calling a press conference.

On a tangential note I'd just like to take the chance to thank you and 'Sam Flynn' for your ongoing kind words in support of my research - in particular, your Casebook posts of January.

I will be exploring the themes touched on above in detail, in the expanded edition of my book which is due out at the end of the month.

Stephen
http://www.timesofisrael.com/were-th...mitic-frameup/

[cnr]

Do you think the choice of the double event murder sites - Stride by the IWMEC and the Arbeiter Fraint premises, Eddowes behind the Great Synagogue - was random and had nothing to do with their 'Jewishness'?

Gary

Hi Gary,

I trust I'm not interposing when I point out that by the time Schwartz spied the opening phase of the attack on Stride, she and a companion had passed by the radical Jewish club four times in the space of about an hour. Either they were just promenading back and forth with the club acting as an anchoring point (for some unknown and innocent reason), or it might suggest that a plan to leave a corpse on its premises was in the offing. It is a not dissimilar line of reasoning as that alluded to by the coroner when he reasoned that, the murderer “must have spent much time and trouble to induce her to place herself in his diabolical clutches”.

A lecture entitled, 'Why Jews Should Be Socialists' had concluded not long before.

I've also found another reason why I think someone may have had the premises of the Arbeter Fraint and the club in his inculpatory sights in those very weeks - which I touch on in my upcoming contribution to Ripperologist magazine due out in a few weeks' time.

Stephen
http://www.timesofisrael.com/were-th...mitic-frameup/

[Sam Flynn]

Hi sam

He could have cleaned wiped his hands then and their over the body. Would have taken seconds.

Not if he'd smeared excrement over them, which he almost certainly had.

[MrBarnett]

Exactly. That’s my next extrapolation.

The ripper lived within a 20 minute brisk walk from miter square. And back..

Abby,

Do you think the choice of the double event murder sites - Stride by the IWMEC and the Arbeiter Fraint premises, Eddowes behind the Great Synagogue - was random and had nothing to do with their 'Jewishness'?

Gary

[Abby Normal]

Well. That all hangs together and explains the timing of finding of the apron and the GSG. That also squarely locates his bolthole within a short distance of Goulston street, no more than about a 20 minute walk, and perhaps closer.

Exactly. That’s my next extrapolation.

The ripper lived within a 20 minute brisk walk from miter square. And back..

[etenguy]

Hi eten
Yes very perplexing.
I think what happened is that he headed out that evening without any intention of writing something and so didn’t have any chalk. But after being interrupted by Jews that night, the main one being Schwartz who had a heavy Jewish appearance and illicited the angry Jewish slur lipski he got the idea to do something to blame the Jews and so cut eddowes apron.

Not having chalk he headed home, dropped off his goodies, knife , cleaned up a bit grabbed a piece of chalk and headed back out to write the gsg.

If any single thing that IMHO links the anti Jewish grifitti with the events of that night it would be the Jewish slur lipski.

Well. That all hangs together and explains the timing of finding of the apron and the GSG. That also squarely locates his bolthole within a short distance of Goulston street, no more than about a 20 minute walk, and perhaps closer.

[Abby Normal]

I find the whole apron/GSG episode to be quite perplexing. If you are right, then he must have planned to leave a message. To bring chalk with him and to take away a piece of the apron. But, for the chalk at least, he would have planned this before the Stride murder. So being angry at being interrupted would not have been his motivation for leaving the GSG. Unless he carried chalk around as a matter of course (teacher perhaps).

The other alternative is that he sought out chalk between Stride and Eddowes, maybe from home, in which case the radius of where he was staying shrinks.

Or it is all a coincidence, and he just discarded the apron at Goulston street while he was on the move. But that doesn't make sense to me either (previous post).

There seems to be something missing that might help us understand what happened.

Hi eten
Yes very perplexing.
I think what happened is that he headed out that evening without any intention of writing something and so didn’t have any chalk. But after being interrupted by Jews that night, the main one being Schwartz who had a heavy Jewish appearance and illicited the angry Jewish slur lipski he got the idea to do something to blame the Jews and so cut eddowes apron.

Not having chalk he headed home, dropped off his goodies, knife , cleaned up a bit grabbed a piece of chalk and headed back out to write the gsg.

If any single thing that IMHO links the anti Jewish grifitti with the events of that night it would be the Jewish slur lipski.

[etenguy]

There is only two reasons for for cutting the portion of apron and then later dumping that makes any sense imho. One is to sign the graffiti which I think is the most likely.

I find the whole apron/GSG episode to be quite perplexing. If you are right, then he must have planned to leave a message. To bring chalk with him and to take away a piece of the apron. But, for the chalk at least, he would have planned this before the Stride murder. So being angry at being interrupted would not have been his motivation for leaving the GSG. Unless he carried chalk around as a matter of course (teacher perhaps).

The other alternative is that he sought out chalk between Stride and Eddowes, maybe from home, in which case the radius of where he was staying shrinks.

Or it is all a coincidence, and he just discarded the apron at Goulston street while he was on the move. But that doesn't make sense to me either (previous post).

There seems to be something missing that might help us understand what happened.