Apron placement as intimidation?

[Abby Normal]

Hi Robert



I don`t know. My guess is that he wasn`t that anti-Semitic.




Nor me, yet a number of people at the time claimed The Ripper was on some sort of religious mission.



They did, but it had been brewing with the accusation of John Pizer and the folk tales of Leather Apron.



As above, the blame quickly fell upon Leather Apron after the Nichols murder.



Personally, I don`t think for a minute that the killer set out with racist intent.

The mobs running around Spitalfields on the day of the Chapman murder blaming and punching the local Jews may have been of some amusement for the actual killer. Not only was it fun for him to see what he instigated, but he was deflecting any suspicion.

In between murders, killers can relive their murderous moments, spicing up their memories with trophies and souvenirs. They peruse the newspaper coverage and listen to the public around them. They can then communicate with the police and newspapers. Lots of ways to stretch out the experience, until they have to do it again
I believe that the message could have been a way of stirring up the mob and creating a buzz for the killer, outside of the actual murder itself.
Her could have stood safely watching the violence and confusion he has created.
The killer was obviously a massively flawed individual but need not have been racist. He probably hated everything and everybody.

But of course, I am 48% aware that the rag could just have been tossed in that doorway as they quickly hurried down Gouldston Street.

Hi Jon
Good post and I pretty much agree with everything you say here. I don’t think he need be inherently anti Semitic either, but I think he was probably playing around with the anti Semitic feeling at the time and specifically triggered to do the gsg by the interruption by Jews that night.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi JG. I just keep coming back to the same question: if Jack the Ripper was anti-Semitic (if that even matters in this case), why didn't he murder Jew prostitutes?

I don't see anything about Polly's or Annie's murders that would suggest Jack the Ripper was communicating any religious hatred; and, I'm left with an impression that the crowd took it upon themselves, after the Chapman murder, to accuse the Jews. The aspect of anti-Semitism doesn't seem to enter the case until after the Chapman murder, which makes me wonder if it was ever even a forethought in the murderer's mind.

Just out of curiosity, do we know how many Jewish prostitutes were around? Perhaps it’s just not something that anyone made a study of?

[Jon Guy]

Hi Robert

Hi JG. I just keep coming back to the same question: if Jack the Ripper was anti-Semitic (if that even matters in this case), why didn't he murder Jew prostitutes?

I don`t know. My guess is that he wasn`t that anti-Semitic.

I don't see anything about Polly's or Annie's murders that would suggest Jack the Ripper was communicating any religious hatred;

Nor me, yet a number of people at the time claimed The Ripper was on some sort of religious mission.

and, I'm left with an impression that the crowd took it upon themselves, after the Chapman murder, to accuse the Jews.

They did, but it had been brewing with the accusation of John Pizer and the folk tales of Leather Apron.

The aspect of anti-Semitism doesn't seem to enter the case until after the Chapman murder,

As above, the blame quickly fell upon Leather Apron after the Nichols murder.

which makes me wonder if it was ever even a forethought in the murderer's mind.

Personally, I don`t think for a minute that the killer set out with racist intent.

The mobs running around Spitalfields on the day of the Chapman murder blaming and punching the local Jews may have been of some amusement for the actual killer. Not only was it fun for him to see what he instigated, but he was deflecting any suspicion.

In between murders, killers can relive their murderous moments, spicing up their memories with trophies and souvenirs. They peruse the newspaper coverage and listen to the public around them. They can then communicate with the police and newspapers. Lots of ways to stretch out the experience, until they have to do it again
I believe that the message could have been a way of stirring up the mob and creating a buzz for the killer, outside of the actual murder itself.
Her could have stood safely watching the violence and confusion he has created.
The killer was obviously a massively flawed individual but need not have been racist. He probably hated everything and everybody.

But of course, I am 48% aware that the rag could just have been tossed in that doorway as they quickly hurried down Gouldston Street.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Jon
The events of that evening lead me to beleive that the ripper wrote the GSG and that he was a local gentile, pissed off at being interupted by jews that night, most probably from the lipski incident, wrote the GSG to deflect blame to them.

But people were already suspecting Jews, so there was arguably no need for any such deflection.

[c.d.]

I still don't see a Jewish connection to the GSG. Are we to believe that the killer went out that evening with the mindset that if he did encounter someone while doing his thing that they would simply say "hey, whatcha doing there, buddy? Oh, just cuttin up a whore? Sorry to have bothered you." That seems pretty damn delusional on his part.

The people who interrupted him were Jews but again the question is did they do it in some sort of Jewish way or do it solely because they were Jews?

To fly into a rage and write a message as a result of the interruptions seems a bit farfetched to me. Just my opinion.

c.d.

[Robert St Devil]

Hi JG. I just keep coming back to the same question: if Jack the Ripper was anti-Semitic (if that even matters in this case), why didn't he murder Jew prostitutes?

I don't see anything about Polly's or Annie's murders that would suggest Jack the Ripper was communicating any religious hatred; and, I'm left with an impression that the crowd took it upon themselves, after the Chapman murder, to accuse the Jews. The aspect of anti-Semitism doesn't seem to enter the case until after the Chapman murder, which makes me wonder if it was ever even a forethought in the murderer's mind.

[Jon Guy]

Hi Jon
The events of that evening lead me to beleive that the ripper wrote the GSG and that he was a local gentile, pissed off at being interupted by jews that night, most probably from the lipski incident, wrote the GSG to deflect blame to them.

Thanks Abby. That could work even without Stride in the mix, as the killer could have been leaving Eddowes (alive at Church Passage) when Lawende and co pass by. They see Eddowes put her hand on the man`s chest, possibly to keep him from moving on, thus signing her own death warrant.
There are so many possible scenarios, but my favourite scenario is that it was a Gentile, who saw the mob running around the streets punching Jews after the Chapman murder, and was keen to stoke further tensions.
But possibly, it was a Jewish murderer who either got singled out by the mob, or was witness to some violence after the Chapman murder, and was keen to show 2 fingers to the Gentiles

[Abby Normal]

Abby

Say the author of the GSG was the Ripper.
Does your gut tell you he was Jewish and sticking it up to the Gentiles ?
Or, he was a Gentile, trying to stir racial tensions ?
AND / OR another reason ?

Hi Jon
The events of that evening lead me to beleive that the ripper wrote the GSG and that he was a local gentile, pissed off at being interupted by jews that night, most probably from the lipski incident, wrote the GSG to deflect blame to them.

[Jon Guy]

indeed Jon

Abby

Say the author of the GSG was the Ripper.
Does your gut tell you he was Jewish and sticking it up to the Gentiles ?
Or, he was a Gentile, trying to stir racial tensions ?
AND / OR another reason ?

[Harry D]

Nice bit of reasoning there, Harry. I do like the way you think...uh...well...about the case anyway. Keep up the good work.

c.d.

Thank you, CD.

I just calls 'em like I sees 'em!

[Abby Normal]

Good to see someone grounded in the social climate of Spitalfields, Sept 88, and clearly knows what the Jews were getting the blame for in the previous weeks.

indeed Jon

[Abby Normal]

You suppose the killer had a beef with the Jews because one caught him assaulting Stride, even though it didn't prevent him from murdering her. How does a vague, ambiguous scribble about Jewish culpability reflect that? Was that really the best antisemitic graffito an angry, adrenalin-pumped killer could do?



Doesn't even have to be that specific, Abby. Just something that would tie it to the murders. A vague insult about the Jews is not it.

Look at it this way, had the apron not been discarded there, would there be any reason to think this was written by the killer and not a random antisemite?

Hi Harry
that's a big if harry.lol

[Jon Guy]

What Arnold and Warren averted was a situation potentially worse than that which had greeted Chapman's demise. Such was the locale, and that moment in time. I find it interesting, that the events on the night of the double-event should have followed-on from that riot, as far as the killer's next foray out.

Good to see someone grounded in the social climate of Spitalfields, Sept 88, and clearly knows what the Jews were getting the blame for in the previous weeks.

[cnr]

Whitechapel was an area of London with a high density of Jewish residents

Hi Sam,

You'll get no arguments from me on that score. It is the bedrock of my thesis. Yes, Whitechapel (Spitalfields in particular) was an ethnic “ghetto” according to writers of the period, both Jewish and gentile.

Together with that reality, the temperature on the street was highly combustible given the socio-political situation on the ground. Testament to that, the decision to expunge the graffito. As Warren put it, “I do not hesitate myself to say that if the writing had been left, there would have been an onslaught upon the Jews...”.

What Arnold and Warren averted was a situation potentially worse than that which had greeted Chapman's demise. Such was the locale, and that moment in time. I find it interesting, that the events on the night of the double-event should have followed-on from that riot, as far as the killer's next foray out.

As to the issue of geography, and the specific examples you cite, you may recall that I pay the matter quite a bit of attention - fundamental and deserving as that argument is, I agree. In particular, in chapter 9, 'Ripper Central', and the 'End of Chapter 13 notes', both of which sections are expanded in the new edition. That said, it is my humble view that the killer was wont to pull more than one lever at his disposal during the course of his campaign, geography being an important one.

For all of that, I am mindful of not derailing the thread, so please excuse the self-referencing elaboration.

Happy posting.

Stephen
http://www.timesofisrael.com/were-th...mitic-frameup/

[MrBarnett]

Gareth,

What if Stride's body had been found inside the open gates of the Winthrop Street yard, Kate's behind Harrison, Barber's head office in Islington and the apron dropped outside a cat's meat shop, on the wall of which was scrawled 'The Knaickers are not the men...'?

Gary