Apron placement as intimidation?

[Sam Flynn]

why do you think the killer would go to his bolt hole and return to deliberately place it there if he didn't need to go get chalk to write the GSG?

Why would he have kept chalk in his bolt-hole? Why was there no graffiti reported at any other murder sites?

why wouldn't he just place the apron there on his way to the bolt hole and be done with it?

...which is what I think he did

(PS: I see no need to posit a bolt-hole.)

[Abby Normal]

And that is what many find difficult to accept.
I agree with the above with the exception of the chalk. The graffiti is unrelated in my view, it was already there.

Hi wick

why do you think the killer would go to his bolt hole and return to deliberately place it there if he didn't need to go get chalk to write the GSG? why wouldn't he just place the apron there on his way to the bolt hole and be done with it?

why do you think the GSG was already there?

[Robert St Devil]

another thought occurred to me jon. rather than the suggestion of the houses 131 and 132 not ,being there, at the time of the finding, maybe he is indicating by the scribble mark NOT to consider those properties since they are on Wentworth Street, not Goulston.

[Wickerman]

to reiterate, there was about an hour or so between her murder and when the apron was discovered in goulston street, but it only takes a few minutes to walk from mitre square to goulston street. so I was suggesting that the killer, whoever he was, had a bolt hole no more than about a half hour away-about the time it would take to walk from Miter square (drop off the incriminating evidence, maybe clean up, grab some chalk) and then back to Goulston street to leave the apron and write the GSG, in time for the PC to definitely find it this time around.

And that is what many find difficult to accept.
I agree with the above with the exception of the chalk. The graffiti is unrelated in my view, it was already there.

[Varqm]

Possibly around 10 minutes from Mitre Square to Wentworth doorway normally but let's say he should have reached the doorway by 2:00 AM.
but instead past 2:20 AM.

3 possbilities:

- He walked using the normal 10-16 minutes:

A bolt hole.He returned(risked) outside for a purpose - wrote the graffito,just dropping the apron served no purpose.

- He did not walk using the normal 10-16 minutes:

He was cautious/slow,used many streets and arrived past 2:20 AM .Could have wrote the graffito or not.Went home.
He was homeless,wandered about,passed through Goulston past 2:20 AM.,put the apron and went somewhere else.


It's not a given he hurried back home.

[Pierre]

I was talking about after the murder of eddowes in mitre square and I wasn't talking about Lechmere.

to reiterate, there was about an hour or so between her murder and when the apron was discovered in goulston street, but it only takes a few minutes to walk from mitre square to goulston street. so I was suggesting that the killer, whoever he was, had a bolt hole no more than about a half hour away-about the time it would take to walk from Miter square (drop off the incriminating evidence, maybe clean up, grab some chalk) and then back to Goulston street to leave the apron and write the GSG, in time for the PC to definitely find it this time around.

Hi Abby,

Why would it have been important to the killer to write a message on a wall do you think?

Pierre

[Abby Normal]

Lechmere lived on Doveton Street.

I was talking about after the murder of eddowes in mitre square and I wasn't talking about Lechmere.

to reiterate, there was about an hour or so between her murder and when the apron was discovered in goulston street, but it only takes a few minutes to walk from mitre square to goulston street. so I was suggesting that the killer, whoever he was, had a bolt hole no more than about a half hour away-about the time it would take to walk from Miter square (drop off the incriminating evidence, maybe clean up, grab some chalk) and then back to Goulston street to leave the apron and write the GSG, in time for the PC to definitely find it this time around.

[Robert St Devil]

I don't get it even for a bad joke.

Lechmere lived on Doveton Street.

[Abby Normal]

So instead of walking directly from Berners to Doveton, he took the long route via Mitre Square, Abby? (sorry, bad joke)

I don't get it even for a bad joke.

[Wickerman]

i've wondered wickerman how the police cleared a witness, and this article doesn't give me much faith in the process.

"Are you Jack the Ripper?"
"No, I'm a doctor."
"Free to go."

Well, we only have the press version, and as the press often criticized the police then what they give us may not be the whole process.
However, for a suspect to provide his name, address & in some cases place of business, on these points being checked out the suspect was "set at liberty", to use the common phrase.

I have the maps so I'll find Brick Lane. Did the police need a warrant to search a suspect's bag?

Apparently not.
"The officers, after much difficulty, got the prisoner to the station, being followed by an excited mob. At the station the bag carried by the prisoner was searched, and in it were found two pairs of scissors, a dagger and sheath, and a life preserver."
http://www.casebook.org/press_report...l?printer=true

[Robert St Devil]

Hi Robert.

Are you familiar with this story by Robert Spicer?
http://www.casebook.org/press_report...ss/310316.html

The only point worthy of note that I observe is that he claimed to arrest a suspect on the night of the double murder, over in Heneage-street, by Brick Lane. People were being stopped, arrested, and let go on what we today might consider the flimsiest of reasons.
It would be consistent with a killer moving eastward from Mitre Sq., through Goulston Street, and on towards Brick Lane.

We don't know if he intended there to be a third victim that night.

I just mention it as a point of trivia.

i've wondered wickerman how the police cleared a witness, and this article doesn't give me much faith in the process.

"Are you Jack the Ripper?"
"No, I'm a doctor."
"Free to go."

I have the maps so I'll find Brick Lane. Did the police need a warrant to search a suspect's bag?

[Robert St Devil]

I would posit that the killers bolt hole would be no more than an approx. half hour distance from miter square/goulston street-the time of about an hour from when eddowes was murdered and the GSG was discovered. the time it would take for the killer to go to his bolt hole, clean up, drop off and return to write the GSG.

So instead of walking directly from Berners to Doveton, he took the long route via Mitre Square, Abby? (sorry, bad joke)

[Abby Normal]

I would posit that the killers bolt hole would be no more than an approx. half hour distance from miter square/goulston street-the time of about an hour from when eddowes was murdered and the GSG was discovered. the time it would take for the killer to go to his bolt hole, clean up, drop off and return to write the GSG.

[Wickerman]

The apron opens up the possibility that his bolthole (or man-cave) was in the vicinity of Goulston Street if you put any stock in Jack the Ripper returning to his bolthole after murdering Elizabeth Stride.

Where was he going after murdering Elizabeth Stride? No certainties but could "bolthole" be among the tops answers. Catherine Eddowes' murder is generally understood as occurring as an afterthought; something that happened because he was unable to get what he wanted from Elizabeth. Did he meet Kate on his way back to his bolthole?

With blood on his hands and being in possession of a kidney, uterus, bloody apron, bloody knife and the alarm of the police on the streets of the East End... what's the probability that his bolthole was actually back in the vicinity of Buck's Row or Berner Street? Meaning, what was the purpose of trekking to Mitre Square if his bolthole was on the other side of Whitechapel in an area he had just come from [45 minutes/an hour] earlier?

He could have continued westward from Mitre Square after murdering Catherine Eddowes, thru City of London. I'm sure there were plenty of doorways in that direction where he could leave her apron. But, the aspect of the apron has him doubling-back and/or stagnating in the vicinity of Mitre Square and Goulston Street, lending to the idea that he had reached the neighborhood of his bolthole.

Hi Robert.

Are you familiar with this story by Robert Spicer?
http://www.casebook.org/press_report...ss/310316.html

The only point worthy of note that I observe is that he claimed to arrest a suspect on the night of the double murder, over in Heneage-street, by Brick Lane. People were being stopped, arrested, and let go on what we today might consider the flimsiest of reasons.
It would be consistent with a killer moving eastward from Mitre Sq., through Goulston Street, and on towards Brick Lane.

We don't know if he intended there to be a third victim that night.

I just mention it as a point of trivia.

[Robert St Devil]

questions, questions...

The apron opens up the possibility that his bolthole (or man-cave) was in the vicinity of Goulston Street if you put any stock in Jack the Ripper returning to his bolthole after murdering Elizabeth Stride.

Where was he going after murdering Elizabeth Stride? No certainties but could "bolthole" be among the tops answers. Catherine Eddowes' murder is generally understood as occurring as an afterthought; something that happened because he was unable to get what he wanted from Elizabeth. Did he meet Kate on his way back to his bolthole?

With blood on his hands and being in possession of a kidney, uterus, bloody apron, bloody knife and the alarm of the police on the streets of the East End... what's the probability that his bolthole was actually back in the vicinity of Buck's Row or Berner Street? Meaning, what was the purpose of trekking to Mitre Square if his bolthole was on the other side of Whitechapel in an area he had just come from [45 minutes/an hour] earlier?

He could have continued westward from Mitre Square after murdering Catherine Eddowes, thru City of London. I'm sure there were plenty of doorways in that direction where he could leave her apron. But, the aspect of the apron has him doubling-back and/or stagnating in the vicinity of Mitre Square and Goulston Street, lending to the idea that he had reached the neighborhood of his bolthole.