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Why Did They Lower Their Guard?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
    Polly might also have been looking for somewhere to sleep, as indeed might Eddowes. Prostitution aside, their need for accommodation alone could have given their killer a means by which to win their confidence.
    Polly did say she was off to earn her doss Sam, we have no such evidence Kates mission near Mitre was solicitation....which is a key factor in the thread question...how did he get them to keep going into the dark with him with all the press and talk on the streets...my answer is based upon what we know was immediate need. Only in Polly and Annies case do we have the victims themselves telling us what they were still doing out late at night...soliciting to earn a bed.
    Michael Richards

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
      Only in Polly and Annies case do we have the victims themselves telling us what they were still doing out late at night...soliciting to earn a bed.
      Indeed. My point is, if someone offered them a bed, the victims would have been just as, perhaps more, likely to go with him than if he asked them for sex.

      In other words, in their state of "roomlessness", they could have lowered their guard without having to lower their knickers.
      Kind regards, Sam Flynn

      "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
        Indeed. My point is, if someone offered them a bed, the victims would have been just as, perhaps more, likely to go with him than if he asked them for sex.

        In other words, in their state of "roomlessness", they could have lowered their guard without having to lower their knickers.
        I suppose I could begrudgingly accept the codicil Sam,.......although I don't see an offer of a bed as a real possibility here.
        Michael Richards

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
          I suppose I could begrudgingly accept the codicil Sam,.......although I don't see an offer of a bed as a real possibility here.
          I'm not saying it definitely happened that way, Michael, but I don't see why not. Put yourself in a killer's shoes - wouldn't you use any tactic at your disposal, if you thought it would give you an advantage over your prey?
          Kind regards, Sam Flynn

          "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
            I'm not saying it definitely happened that way, Michael, but I don't see why not. Put yourself in a killer's shoes - wouldn't you use any tactic at your disposal, if you thought it would give you an advantage over your prey?
            I agree in principle Sam, I was speaking to the probabilities. I don't see a conniving, scheming killer who gets at Polly Sam, he is a pent-up flood of emotions and far too eager to get to the moments he is looking for. He acts spontaneously and rashly. But with confidence, he lets the next victim lead him.
            Michael Richards

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            • #21
              Further to the point I was trying to make yesterday, isn't the fact that just 2 of the Canonicals were known to have been engaging in the type of business that facilitated the goal of the murderer/mutilator something that should be strongly considered?

              We really don't know why Liz was in the passage, nor why Kate turned the opposite direction of John when leaving the jail, and we can see that Marys circumstances were much different than any previous Canonicals. We really have only 2 women who were known to have been soliciting...something which I believe is a key to these cases. Prostitutes, or Unfortunates prostituting for their bed, gave the random opportunistic killer 2 things....anonymity and privacy. I believe Pollys murder represents the first time he tries to free these demons that have been haunting him. He cant wait any more...and as a result he strikes before he has the secured privacy. He learns from this and is anxious to try again with more self control.

              Summary...the man who killed the women while they solicited used their own economic vulnerability to get them alone. He didn't have to "act" really, he could just allow himself to be taken by the arm. Even a socially awkward man could have pulled that off.
              Michael Richards

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              • #22
                Reckon all five were after money.

                Nichols and Chapman were most likely offered a bed for the night to get them off Hanbury Street.

                After her companion left, Liz has entered the passage to receive her pay off.
                She has been offered cashous,an astringent for her lower lip, and the killer has struck immediately.

                If Kate was not locked up,she would have been there also.
                Strongly suspect Frank Carter was a soldier she recruited as a safeguard.

                Mary Kelly,as per the trainee nun's account,was the cause of it all.
                My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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                • #23
                  Could the Ripper have been a policeman or dressed as one?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Fantomas View Post
                    Could the Ripper have been a policeman or dressed as one?
                    In theory, yes, but I'm not sure there's anything at all to suggest that was the case.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
                      In theory, yes, but I'm not sure there's anything at all to suggest that was the case.
                      The oblique Abberline reference to a "peaked hat"?

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Fantomas View Post
                        The oblique Abberline reference to a "peaked hat"?
                        the peaked cap is in reference to something that a sailor would wear, not a policemans hat.
                        "Is all that we see or seem
                        but a dream within a dream?"

                        -Edgar Allan Poe


                        "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                        quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                        -Frederick G. Abberline

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                        • #27
                          Hello Michael,

                          I just don't get the whole known to be soliciting thing. Did the prostitutes generally make an announcement before they hit the street or punch in with a time clock? Does engaging in the act of prostitution require the full intent to do so before they hit the street or would the choice be up to them at any given time once approached by a customer?

                          c.d.

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                          • #28
                            I should add that prostitutes were their own boss so to speak. It is not like they were shop girls who could only work when the shop was open. Even if they had initially decided to not actively solicit that night there is nothing that would prevent them from changing their minds if they so chose, i.e., make an accommodation for a customer willing to pay a little extra. So the idea that if a woman was not actively soliciting then she could not be a Ripper victim simply does not add up.

                            c.d.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by c.d. View Post
                              Hello Michael,

                              I just don't get the whole known to be soliciting thing. Did the prostitutes generally make an announcement before they hit the street or punch in with a time clock? Does engaging in the act of prostitution require the full intent to do so before they hit the street or would the choice be up to them at any given time once approached by a customer?

                              c.d.
                              The point here is cd, from the perspective of the available evidence, is that ONLY Polly and Annie said themselves that they were actively soliciting. No such evidence exists from any other Canonical, unless you give credence to Hutchinson. We don't know why Liz was there, nor do we know why Kate didn't go seek out John, in the opposite direction from that which she took.
                              Michael Richards

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                              • #30
                                Not sure where "Polly and Annie said themselves that they were actively soliciting" that morning,or the previous night.

                                By coincidence both left their boarding houses around 1.40 am to "get some money".

                                Both were found dead in the vicinity of Hanbury Street,a short walk from the London Hospital.

                                Hmm.....
                                Last edited by DJA; 03-10-2017, 08:56 AM. Reason: a short walk etc.
                                My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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