The GSG. What Does It Mean??

[Rosey O'Ryan]

Hi Mr Brown,

Hmm. That word "Juwes"... obviously written by an illiterate adult, a madman , intent on implicating the Jewish population of the East End. But if we cannot ascertain the identity of the writer/killer we can only kinderspiel.
Rosey :-)

[Howard Brown]

What is not often broached here is the fact that we can never be 100% sure that the Mitre Square killer left the apron piece there, and it may have been found and brought to that location to be used as anti-jew propaganda perhaps. Leaving a murder scene item at residences almost entirely Jewish is almost as good as a place like the International Club on Berner if you want to target Jews...except that location was busy at the time.

Mike:

This infers conspiracy, but by whom? The prevalent feeling was that a person who happened to be Jewish/non-native born was already the killer even before the Leather Apron hoopla a month earlier....

Your scenario suggests that either the Ripper or a policeman placed the apron there, since no one else knew the apron piece came from Eddowes or rather, would know.

Ergo, if the Ripper intentionally placed the apron piece under,near, or close to the Message on the wall, its almost as if he wrote it anyway, if the placement was intended to connect the two items...the Message and the apron piece...In short, if he didn't write the G, then it was already written for him in your scenario...which I'm sure you can see is a bit of a stretch, with all due respect.

Alternatively, if a policeman placed it there, then that implies intentional falsification of evidence,since the Message was taken seriously enough to eradicate it for the well known reasons provided. Whether or not WE consider it evidence, the official actions undertaken by the police on the scene show they did...by the objection(s) to removing it and the action of removing it after copying it down.

[Sam Flynn]

This is probably outside the remit of this thread anyhow

It is indeed, Claire, and thanks for reminding us.


Mike,

I've pointed out at least once that this thread is about the meaning of the graffito, not about whether the apron was smeared with blood, or how it got to Goulston Street. As befits a cloth item, there are threads aplenty on the apron.

This one's about the meaning of the chalk writing.

[claire]

What is not often broached here is the fact that we can never be 100% sure that the Mitre Square killer left the apron piece there, and it may have been found and brought to that location to be used as anti-jew propaganda perhaps. Leaving a murder scene item at residences almost entirely Jewish is almost as good as a place like the International Club on Berner if you want to target Jews...except that location was busy at the time.

This is probably outside the remit of this thread anyhow, but the idea that someone moved it to implicate Jews in the murder would suppose that they found the apron piece either in Mitre Sq., thus saw the body before it was 'officially' found, or found the apron piece and figured that there was a Ripper victim around with a bit of apron missing. Otherwise, a bit of bloody apron, near all those slaughterhouses, so what?

Hello all,

I still find the fact that there are multiple verisons of what was written, despite the fact that Policemen took down notes before it was erased, an odd thing. Erasing it before a photo, then being careless enough not to copy it verbatim? It would appear that many thought it harmless and insignifigant....despite Warrens insistence it was potentially dangerous and inflammatory.

I wonder if that attitude represents opinions that they thought the messsage might have been used by the killer as punctuation, but was likely not written by him,..therefore it offered little of evidentiary value in terms of its accurate preservation?

If so....why would they believe that? Perhaps because "Jews" was mispelled, and they felt the killer was Jewish and would know better.

What is not often broached here is the fact that we can never be 100% sure that the Mitre Square killer left the apron piece there, and it may have been found and brought to that location to be used as anti-jew propaganda perhaps. Leaving a murder scene item at residences almost entirely Jewish is almost as good as a place like the International Club on Berner if you want to target Jews...except that location was busy at the time.

Best regards all.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Sam

Does the true address ie 108-119 Wentworth Model Dwellings appear in these reports?

I've found references to it in three reports so far, albeit to "118-119", Stephen:

The Times: "It was lying in the passage leading to a staircase of 118 and 119 [Goulston Street], ordinary model dwelling-houses."

The Echo: "a portion of the murdered woman's apron [found] in Goulston-street - in a passage leading to 118 and 118,a model block of dwellings."

The Daily News: "It was lying in the passage leading to the staircase of 118 and 119 [Goulston Street], which is a model dwelling house."

A November edition of the Pall Mall Gazette reminds us that the writing was found on the wall in Mitre Square, directly above the victim's body! Just shows how quickly inaccuracies creep in and potential myths are born.

[Stephen Thomas]

The inquest proceedings was covered in the newspapers, and the full text of the graffito - including the discussion over how "Juwes" was spelled - appeared in practically all of them, including the Times, the Star, Pall Mall Gazette, East London Observer and the Daily Telegraph.

Hi Sam

Does the true address ie 108-119 Wentworth Model Dwellings appear in these reports?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Robert,

Absolutely.

Regards,

Simon

[Robert]

And stupid of Warren not to realise that the message could also read : "Warren is the man to fund the job. He will not get the blame."

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

The GSG was an anagram, chalked by disgruntled detectives.

"The Juwes are the men that will not be blamed for nothing."

Turns into—

"Warren is the man to get the blame. He will not fund the job."

Devilish cunning, and smart of Supt. Arnold to spot its true purport.

Regards,

Simon

[Howard Brown]

Maybe...but if it was a woman, this would make a whole lot of sense: she did a bit of housekeeping, one of them spilled something and then: how's this happen, Suzie? Clean it up now. And then: How did this nightgown get torn, Suzie? Suzie, my dress is too big: chalk it up and take it in. Then the downtrodden Suzie, hanging around waiting to pick up some laundry or waiting on a friend, half bored and half-attentive, writes her little note on the wall.

I'm glad you said that Claire. If I said that,my wife would whip my ass.

Regardless of gender,trying to apply a meaning to this message is impossible.

[claire]

Thanks for that Sam. So it's more than likely that regardless of who wrote the graffito they would have been aware that he police were not happy with it, and had it erased, and that Kate Eddowes apron was found in close proximity to it. Wouldn't it follow that any half intelligent individual would also surmise that the police were considering whether it had been written by Jack the Ripper?

all the best

Observer

Yes, a half-intelligent and newspaper reading individual would. And, just as quickly, decide to stay well clear. Assuming our individual was half-intelligent and read the newspaper

[claire]

HeheHe....at the risk of sounding sexist, definately a woman. But man or woman, surely yer takes yer goods back to who you bought them off, and give them a lambasting. I can't for the life of me bring myself to believe that a disgruntled buyer of Jewish goods would resort to writing on walls to vent their anger.

all the best

Observer

Maybe...but if it was a woman, this would make a whole lot of sense: she did a bit of housekeeping, one of them spilled something and then: how's this happen, Suzie? Clean it up now. And then: How did this nightgown get torn, Suzie? Suzie, my dress is too big: chalk it up and take it in. Then the downtrodden Suzie, hanging around waiting to pick up some laundry or waiting on a friend, half bored and half-attentive, writes her little note on the wall.

[Sam Flynn]

Wouldn't it follow that any half intelligent individual would also surmise that the police were considering whether it had been written by Jack the Ripper?

I've no doubt that they did, and one can understand why.

[Observer]

Thanks for that Sam. So it's more than likely that regardless of who wrote the graffito they would have been aware that he police were not happy with it, and had it erased, and that Kate Eddowes apron was found in close proximity to it. Wouldn't it follow that any half intelligent individual would also surmise that the police were considering whether it had been written by Jack the Ripper?

all the best

Observer