piece of apron

[Fisherman]

I am suggesting that it is natural to discard something immediately when that item has been used to wipe/contain bodily fluids.

Cheers.
LC

That seems very convincing - at first glance. But once we realize that such a dumping would - given that it was not done by the body - have implied in which direction the killer took off, we may have identified a good reason to hang on to the rag.
Dumping it in Goulston Street more than an hour afterwards would have entailed much less risk.

The best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

Hello Christer. Thanks.

"Hmm? I'm not sure that knowing about Liz would have made Long extra alert."

Well, seems quite possible.

Perhaps more to the point, if he were extra alert, would he not be LESS likely to have missed the apron piece?

Cheers.
LC

Wouldn´t argue with that, Lynn.

The best,
Fisherman

[lynn cates]

likely

Hello Christer. Thanks.

"Hmm? I'm not sure that knowing about Liz would have made Long extra alert."

Well, seems quite possible.

Perhaps more to the point, if he were extra alert, would he not be LESS likely to have missed the apron piece?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

natural

Hello Thomas. Thanks.

"I wouldn't know about holding onto things after killing someone, I have absolutely no idea how I would act or behave after committing murder."

But murder is not my point. I am suggesting that it is natural to discard something immediately when that item has been used to wipe/contain bodily fluids.

Cheers.
LC

[Fisherman]

Hello Christer. Thanks.

"the main thing would have been that Long knew that a murder had been perpetrated that night."

Right. And if he knew of Liz, then Thomas may be suggesting that Long was extra alert.

Cheers.
LC

Hmm? I´m not sure that knowing about Liz would have made Long extra alert. I should think that knowing that a woman had been killed, Ripper style (which Stride arguably wasn´t to the full extent) a stone´s throw away some time earlier would have sufficed...?

The best,
Fisherman

[lynn cates]

either

Hello Christer. Thanks.

"the main thing would have been that Long knew that a murder had been perpetrated that night."

Right. And if he knew of Liz, then Thomas may be suggesting that Long was extra alert.

Cheers.
LC

[El White Chap]

thanks Lynn.

But there is no good reason to hold on to it. It should be discarded when finished.

I wouldn't know about holding onto things after killing someone, I have absolutely no idea how I would act or behave after committing murder.

To illustrate. You have a runny nose and find a tissue. Do you:

1. Look for a dust bin in which to discard it?

or

2. Hold it in your palm and play with it for a quarter hour?

I've never blown my nose into a tissue and considered what to do with said tissue following murdering someone. I might look for bin, I might not. I might discard, I might keep it on my person. In either case, I'm probably in no sane frame of mind to do either. Given the many possible apprehensions of the ripper it's rather difficult to guess either way.

[Fisherman]

Hello Christer. Thanks for that.

But I wonder when Long found out about Liz?

Cheers.
LC

So do I - but I found it somewhat immaterial in relation to El´s question; the main thing would have been that Long knew that a murder had been perpetrated that night.

The best,
Fisherman

[lynn cates]

Liz

Hello Christer. Thanks for that.

But I wonder when Long found out about Liz?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

when?

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"and also that Det Halse went through Goulston St at about 2.20 and he had come straight from Mitre Sq, how would Long have known before 2.20?"

Quite. And it seems Long did not know just then either.

Cheers.
LC

[Fisherman]

What with all the hysteria in the air caused by the fresh news coming from Berner Street, it would be quite plausible would it not, for the P.C. to have overlooked the doorway in its entirety. When under pressure, being completely thorough can be somewhat challenging. I haven't yet come across any information stating if the P.C. was already aware of news from Berner Street, do we know if he was in the know already about Liz?.
Going on the assumption he was informed, could that news have influenced the way in which he 'combed' his beat area? Looking for an assailant on the streets and checking each crevice off the streets (door archways etc etc) would be different altogether with the 'alarm bells' of murder ringing in the air, when compared to an unalarmed beat combing.

Here´s what you need to know, El:

"By Mr. Crawford. - The moment he found the piece of apron he searched the staircases leading to the building. He did make any inquiry of the inmates in the tenements. There were either six or seven staircases, one leading down, and the others upstairs. He searched every staircase, and could find no trace of blood or any recent footmarks. He found the apron at five minutes to 3, and when he searched the staircases it would be about 3 o'clock. Having searched the staircases he at once proceeded to the police-station. Before proceeding to the station he had heard that a murder had been committed in Mitre-square. When he started for the police-station he left Police-constable 190 H in charge of the building. He did not know the constable's name; he was a member of the Metropolitan Police. Witness told him to keep observation on the dwelling, to see whether any one left or entered it. Witness next returned to the building at 5 o'clock. The writing was rubbed out in witness's presence at half-past 5, or thereabouts. He heard no one object to the writing being rubbed out.

A juryman. - Having heard of the murder, and having afterwards found the piece of apron with blood on it and the writing on the wall, did it not strike you that it would be well to make some examination of the rooms in the building? You say you searched all the passages, but you would not expect that the man who had committed the murder would hide himself there. Witness. - Seeing the blood there, I thought that the murder had been committed, and that the body might be placed in the building.

The juryman. - You did not search the rooms, but left a man to watch the building, and the whole clue seems to have passed away. I do not wish to say anything harsh, as I consider that the evidence of yourself and of the other members of the police redounds to the credit of all of you; but this does seem a point that requires a little investigation. You find a piece of apron wet with blood; you search all the passages, and then you leave the building in the care of a man to watch the front. Witness. - I thought the best thing I could do was to go to the station and report the matter to the inspector on duty.

The juryman. - I feel sure you did your best.

Mr. Crawford. - May we take it that you thought you would be more likely to find the body of the murdered person there than the assassin? Witness. - Yes.

By a juryman. - Witness was a stranger in the neighbourhood. No one could have gone out of the front part of the building without being seen by the constable left on the spot by witness."

Long, just like Monty tells you, was drafted in from A-division to help out during the Ripper scare. He was let go from the police force due to being drunk on his job some time later. How good a witness he is is anybody´s guess. He may have tried to cover for his own failure to find the rag on the first occasion he passed the building, we will never know. But he does press the point that the rag was not there fairly hard, and to my mind he could just as well have said that it may have been, and that he could have overlooked it in the darkness.
My money is therefore on him being truthful about this.

The best,
Fisherman

[lynn cates]

the main tissue

Hello (again) Thomas. Thanks.

"Taking a piece of apron a few streets on is hardly that much more of a risk when you're already showcasing your murderous ways in the public's own cobble corridors."

But there is no good reason to hold on to it. It should be discarded when finished.

To illustrate. You have a runny nose and find a tissue. Do you:

1. Look for a dust bin in which to discard it?

or

2. Hold it in your palm and play with it for a quarter hour?

Cheers.
LC

[Jon Guy]

Hello Thomas.

"do we know if he was in the know already about Liz?"

According to Long's statement at inquest, it seems he found out about Liz:

1. after he found the apron/graffito

but

2. Before going to the station and leaving another constable in charge.

("The Ultimate" p. 214. His phrasing is slightly ambiguous.)

Cheers.
LC

Also, Det Halse went through Goulston St at about 2.20 and he had come straight from Mitre Sq.
How would PC Long have known about the murder before 2.20.

[lynn cates]

Clothes brush or close brush?

Hello Christer. Thanks.

"I think we may need to add the element of brushing up here."

Brush? Thought that was Liz? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[El White Chap]

Very well. Why is he waiting? Why not go home straightaway?

Cleaning oneself in the sanctuary of the indoors perhaps. Taking time to bath in the adrenaline of the recent kill. There could be many plausible reasons.

Although I don't care for conspiracies, for the usual reasons, I cannot derail a line of thought, simply for this reason.

I'm not ruling anything out, as long as it's possible it must be considered viable.

This satisfies the time anomaly, but not the DISTANCE one. The cloth should not be where it was.

Why should the piece of apron not be where it was? I take your earlier point that to logically minimise risk of being caught, it should have been left at the scene of the crime or close to it. However, this was the work of someone/somebodies (depending on which you subscribe) who on the whole did their 'work' right out in the public eye where the risks of being seen, heard, interrupted were very high. Right out on the street. Taking a piece of apron a few streets on is hardly that much more of a risk when you're already showcasing your murderous ways in the publics own cobble corridors.