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Les juifs sont les hommes qui ne seront pas blâmés pour rien

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  • DJA
    replied
    French,Yiddish ..... it's all Greek to me.

    My favorite actor in the mid 1950s played the part,well as Ulysses,in 1954.

    Guess that qualifies as etymological

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  • Al Bundy's Eyes
    replied
    Originally posted by DJA View Post
    Perhaps Jack was having fun with the Old Jewry with a double entente.

    Nothing may be part of that,in reference to Eddowes.
    Rather like when Odysseus stabs Polyphemus in the eye and then the latter yells "No-one has hurt me!"
    Good Lord, Ripperology's an etymological vaudeville without needing to know Greek mythology to boot. Come on man, give us mere mortals a chance.

    Leave a comment:


  • DJA
    replied
    Perhaps Jack was having fun with the Old Jewry with a double entente.

    Nothing may be part of that,in reference to Eddowes.
    Rather like when Odysseus stabs Polyphemus in the eye and then the latter yells "No-one has hurt me!"

    Leave a comment:


  • DJA
    replied
    All jokes aside,the syntax is not French.

    Stevenson lied a lot.

    Like meeting Edward Bulwer Lytton in Paris in 1859.

    Doubt he could even speak French.

    All the Best!

    Leave a comment:


  • IchabodCrane
    replied
    Originally posted by DJA View Post
    Perhaps D'Onstyn got the word Juwes from Henry Gawen Sutton while he was being treated as an inpatient.

    His neurasthenia and subsequent addiction to chloral hydrate may have dulled his brain.
    His brain was apparently sharp enough to recognize the French grammar of the GSG. Unfortunately Stephenson got sidetracked by focussing on the word Juwes, which is still confusing the discussion until this day. The syntax of the sentence tells us all: the writer was French! It would be strange for a cockney speaker to spell 'Juwes' but a native of France might have got his spelling confused in the rush of the moment, having almost dropped a kidney from his apron seconds before.

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  • DJA
    replied
    Perhaps D'Onstyn got the word Juwes from Henry Gawen Sutton while he was being treated as an inpatient.

    His neurasthenia and subsequent addiction to chloral hydrate may have dulled his brain.

    Leave a comment:


  • IchabodCrane
    replied
    Originally posted by DJA View Post
    So,your reckon a French person would make the mistake of writing Juives instead of Juifs?
    No, that was the point of my original post: A french person would never have written 'Juives'. But he could have written 'Juwes' because he thought that is what its spelled in English. The point being he tried to write the english word, not wrote a French word as was surmised by Stephenson.

    Stephenson was wrong about the w being an iv, but he was right about the grammar structure.
    Last edited by IchabodCrane; 02-26-2020, 08:07 PM.

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  • DJA
    replied
    So,you reckon a French person would make the mistake of writing Juives instead of Juifs?

    The men are the men .....
    Last edited by DJA; 02-26-2020, 08:04 PM.

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  • IchabodCrane
    replied
    Originally posted by DJA View Post
    My comment was simply on the word 'Juwes'.

    Having had to endure French for two years at school,you can be assured the structure is not French.

    Juives has been done to death here for many,many years.

    Guess it's time for a revival.

    The women are the men .......
    I hope this thread will turn out to be about the sentence structure, not about the word. Having also had only 2 years of school French, I am looking toward some confident French connoisseurs on these boards to offer opinions. To me the structure ('sont les/des hommes' ... 'ne... rien' ) is more evidently french than french toast and french fries.

    Leave a comment:


  • DJA
    replied
    My comment was simply on the word 'Juwes'.

    Having had to endure French for two years at school,you can be assured the structure is not French.

    Juives has been done to death here for many,many years.

    Guess it's time for a revival.

    The women are the men .......
    Last edited by DJA; 02-26-2020, 07:45 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • IchabodCrane
    replied
    Originally posted by Al Bundy's Eyes View Post
    I suppose, if one was to theorise the GSG was written in some pidgin English, then it's not the same author of any of the letters?
    Most probably the murderer is not the author of any of the letters. On none of the letters there is a majority opinion that they were sent by the actual murderer. The one with the highest probability to be genuine is the 'From Hell' letter, which is however in a completely different style and jargon.

    Leave a comment:


  • IchabodCrane
    replied
    Originally posted by DJA View Post
    Juwes is a Frisian/Dutch word for Jews.

    Huyg Dirksz painted under the name Douwe Juwes de Dowe which continually confuses Ripperologists.

    If Jack the Ripper grew up in Acklam,Middlesbrough , he would be familiar with the word. Especially when his father and uncle were Master Mariners.

    A ferry still runs between between Middlesbrough and Friesland.
    I think it is not so much about that one individual word, but about the grammatical structure of the sentence. The structure I believe is not Frisian. Back-translating the GSG e.g. into dutch or German, does not provide any meaningful dutch or german sentence.

    Die Juden sind die Männer, die nicht für nichts die Schuld kriegen -> hmm, no. emphatically no.
    de joden zijn de mannen die niet voor niets de schuld krijgen -> same problem as in english, it might be understood, but doesnt really make sense

    In French however, the 'backward translation' yields a sentence that can be understood and gives meaning.
    Last edited by IchabodCrane; 02-26-2020, 07:39 PM.

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  • IchabodCrane
    replied
    Originally posted by c.d. View Post
    The night of the double event is like a big red arrow pointing towards Jews, a point the killer wanted to press home after the speculation in the September media about the Ripper possibly being a Jew, following the temporary arrest of Leather Apron. From the Socialist Jewish Workers Club, to the Great Synagogue, to the Graffito, the killer had planned to commit his crime and leave his traces creating the closest possible association to Jews. So that after September 30th, no doubt would remain that the Whitechapel killer was a Jew.


    Hello Ichabod,

    That might have been his intention but if the GSG is supposed to be the final piece of the puzzle which connects all the dots (and I think that connection is tentative at best) then he dropped the ball big time. Nobody knows what the hell it means.

    c.d.
    That's because he was French he thought the meaning would be clear to everyone, as it would have been for a frenchman in the original

    Leave a comment:


  • Al Bundy's Eyes
    replied
    I suppose, if one was to theorise the GSG was written in some pidgin English, then it's not the same author of any of the letters?

    Leave a comment:


  • DJA
    replied
    Juwes is a Frisian/Dutch word for Jews.

    Huyg Dirksz painted under the name Douwe Juwes de Dowe which continually confuses Ripperologists.

    If Jack the Ripper grew up in Acklam,Middlesbrough , he would be familiar with the word. Especially when his father and uncle were Master Mariners.

    A ferry still runs between between Middlesbrough and Friesland.
    Last edited by DJA; 02-26-2020, 07:14 PM.

    Leave a comment:

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