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The GSG - Did Jack write it? POLL

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  • Hello Garry,

    A very good point. I too have an open mind about the writing on the wall.
    IMHO it has many possibilities as to it's source.

    best wishes

    Phil
    Chelsea FC. TRUE BLUE. 💙


    Justice for the 96 = achieved
    Accountability? ....

    Comment


    • I would also have to vote no. Thus being plain and clear. Let's just say you've murdered two women, in less than an hour. Your being hunted. Not only do you have blood on you, but you possess Kate Eddowes's Apron. But yourself in the killer's shoes. Would you stop and write a message on the wall? Or would you get the hell out of the situation as much as possible? I would think that this killer was more inept to getting away as fast as possible, rather than loiter around, and if...IF he happened to loiter around the location of Goulston Street, then it would obviously point to him living in that area.

      Regards,
      Justin
      They who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night. - Edgar Allan Poe

      Comment


      • How is it that the authorities thought that the GSG was potentially more politically and racially unstable than a body being found beside a Jewish club? Or was it only seen as a problem when thought of in conjuction with that? Was it the Working Men's club that Warren thought would be the target? Surely the killing was a much bigger problem politically? Did Jack write it hoping to throw suspicion onto the members of the club? I have always had trouble coming up with a reason for Jack to write the GSG - I know his reasons may be more than a little whacked, but still - what is the point? And if the club was the point, why there in Goulston street? Were any of the residents members?

        Sorry after all these ramblings i think it unlikely that the GSG had relevance to the ripper, but how to explain the apron?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Garry Wroe
          I've always kept an open mind on the 'Juwes' message, Tom, but have often wondered why, if the killer had a penchant for leaving textual messages, he neglected to do so at the Kelly crime scene despite having the time and privacy that were so obviously lacking in Goulston Street.
          Hi Garry. That's a good question and I think it comes down to circumstance. My interpretation of the graffiti is that the Ripper was letting authorities know that he killed Stride. It's curious that no two men report having seen the same thing on the wall, as though they'd all been hypnotized. I believe this is because they were trying to make a word out of an acronyn - The IWMES are the men that will be blamed for nothing. Just a theory, but it's workable. Of course, the acronym means 'International Working Men's Educational Society', the name that appeared on the big sign above the front door of the Berner Street club. Whether I'm correct or not, I wouldn't take it for granted that the graffiti made any direct reference to Jews. A photograph of the writing would be nice, thank you very much, Sir Charles.

          Yours truly,

          Tom Wescott

          Comment


          • That’s an interesting interpretation, Tom. I don’t buy into it myself. But, as you have inferred, much of the message-related speculation currently doing the rounds would have been obviated had Sir Charles applied more forensic care to the task of evidence gathering. Still, whilst Warren was clearly out of his depth, he performed no less competently than those who would lead the hunt for the Yorkshire Ripper almost a century later.

            All the best.

            Garry Wroe.

            Comment


            • How is it that the authorities thought that the GSG was potentially more politically and racially unstable than a body being found beside a Jewish club? Or was it only seen as a problem when thought of in conjunction with that?

              There was not only a Jewish connotation concerning the message and Stride murder scene, Evilina, but with Mitre Square, too. This latter element is often overlooked, yet was almost certainly a significant factor in Warren’s decision to expunge the message.

              Was it the Working Men's club that Warren thought would be the target?

              It was the Jewish community in general. The ‘pauper alien’ in the late-Victorian East End was regarded by many with the same venomous contempt as are radical Muslim extremists in contemporary Britain. Since this simmering resentment had already manifested itself in mob violence directed at the local Hebrew population, it would be no exaggeration to state that the authorities feared a bloodbath. Given this context, it becomes easy to understand Warren’s decisions in sociopolitical terms, if not from an investigative perspective.

              I have always had trouble coming up with a reason for Jack to write the GSG - I know his reasons may be more than a little whacked, but still - what is the point?

              We will never know if the Whitechapel Murderer authored the Goulston Street message. If he did, however, it is likely that he was a Gentile who was attempting to fan the flames of press and public suspicion that the killer was a Jew. If, on the other hand, the message was non-Ripper related, it was probably intended to imply that the Jews were apt to blame others rather than acknowledge their own deficiencies.

              Sorry after all these ramblings i think it unlikely that the GSG had relevance to the ripper, but how to explain the apron?

              Quite simply, the apron remnant was almost certainly used to wrap up the body parts and thereby protect the killer’s clothing from fluid seepage as he made his escape from Mitre Square. The fact that it was offloaded in Goulston Street is strongly suggestive that the killer was nearing his bolt-hole and couldn’t risk retaining possession of it any longer.

              Regards.

              Garry Wroe.

              Comment


              • Like Tom, I perceive a reference to the murder of Elizabeth Stride, within the written portion of the message; albeit, one that is more-or-less indirect.

                I also perceive a reference to the murder of Catharine Eddowes, within the apron portion of the message; one that is emphatic, and quite clearly very direct.

                I should emphasize that this is all nothing more than a gut-feeling; but I envisage Stride's murderer having been disturbed in Dutfield's Yard, and having thus been enraged and obsessively compelled to do something, which he psychotically considered to be immoral: Kill twice during the same excursion. Having done just that; he more-or-less blamed the "Juwes" for Eddowes's death, and 'voiced' his feelings accordingly.

                I should emphasize again, that this is merely a gut-feeling.

                ---------

                I have never voted in a 'Casebook' poll; and never will I choose to do so!

                But, were I at all inclined to vote in this particular poll, I would not be able – as the only rational answer is not included amongst the choices. That being: "I do not know"!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Septic Blue View Post
                  I should emphasize that this is all nothing more than a gut-feeling; but I envisage Stride's murderer having been disturbed in Dutfield's Yard, and having thus been enraged and obsessively compelled to do something, which he psychotically considered to be immoral: Kill twice during the same excursion. Having done just that; he more-or-less blamed the "Juwes" for Eddowes's death, and 'voiced' his feelings accordingly.
                  I have a strong gut-feeling that you're right.

                  Amitiés,
                  David

                  Comment


                  • For someone who is very obvious in deed he is very extremely ambiguous when corresponding.

                    Monty




                    Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                    Comment


                    • Certainly, but if the GSG doesn't refer to the murders, it becomes even more absurd and abstruse.

                      Amitiés,
                      David

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Monty View Post
                        For someone who is very obvious in deed he is very extremely ambiguous when corresponding.
                        'Jack the Ripper' may have been many things; but ambiguous in his written communications, he most certainly was not! Right, Neil?

                        Isn't it nice to know that? Isn't it nice to know that while any number of other persons might have been capable of chalking an ambiguous message in Goulston Street; 'Jack the Ripper' most certainly was not!

                        Good ol' 'Crystal-Clear Jack'! He could always be relied upon to let people know exactly where he stood!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by DVV View Post
                          ... if the GSG doesn't refer to the murders, it becomes even more absurd and abstruse.
                          Nicely put!

                          And by way of the apron; the GSG can most certainly be interpreted as having made reference to the murder of Catherine Eddowes.

                          But, having said that; ...

                          Originally posted by Septic Blue View Post
                          ... were I at all inclined to vote in this particular poll, I would not be able – as the only rational answer is not included amongst the choices. That being: "I do not know"!
                          Last edited by Septic Blue; 01-15-2010, 05:33 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Septic Blue View Post
                            'Jack the Ripper' may have been many things; but ambiguous in his written communications, he most certainly was not! Right, Neil?

                            Isn't it nice to know that? Isn't it nice to know that while any number of other persons might have been capable of chalking an ambiguous message in Goulston Street; 'Jack the Ripper' most certainly was not!

                            Good ol' 'Crystal-Clear Jack'! He could always be relied upon to let people know exactly where he stood!

                            I see your point, and thanks for the sarcasm, appreciated. It strengthens your arguement no end.

                            Of course, clarity in the writing would have dismissed doubt. However clarity is missing, so the doubt remains. Damn

                            And by way of the apron; the GSG can most certainly be interpreted as having made reference to the murder of Catherine Eddowes.
                            Only by the way of the apron. Take that away and what you get?

                            Monty




                            Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                            http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Monty
                              Only by the way of the apron. Take that away and what you get?
                              This isn't good logic. Take away the holocaust and Hitler wasn't such a bad guy, but how does one take away the holocaust? This argument is used to discount Stride - 'Take away the fact that she was killed within a mile and 45 minutes of Eddowes and what do you get?'

                              The graffiti wouldn't be there without the apron and vice versa.

                              Yours truly,

                              Tom Wescott

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
                                This isn't good logic. Take away the holocaust and Hitler wasn't such a bad guy, but how does one take away the holocaust? This argument is used to discount Stride - 'Take away the fact that she was killed within a mile and 45 minutes of Eddowes and what do you get?'

                                The graffiti wouldn't be there without the apron and vice versa.

                                Yours truly,

                                Tom Wescott
                                Tom,

                                My apologies for being illogical.

                                The invaision of numrous other countries, oppression of numours peoples other than the Jews (Intinerants, disabled), etc kinda points one to concluded Hitler wasnt a jolly good chap.

                                Now, name me something in the writing that supports the idea its writer comitted any crime, let alone murdered Eddowes....or was Jack the Ripper.

                                With Hitler the evidences were many, with the writing the is only one.

                                Monty




                                Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                                http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                                Comment

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