Goulstan Street Graffito.

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

Am I right in assuming there are not any examples of copy cat graffiti recorded, purporting to be messages from the killer? If no, seems strange considering the number of copy cat letters received after the dear boss letter. I wonder why this was?

Tristan

https://www.casebook.org/dissertations/rip-wallwriting.html

[Losmandris]

Am I right in assuming there are not any examples of copy cat graffiti recorded, purporting to be messages from the killer? If no, seems strange considering the number of copy cat letters received after the dear boss letter. I wonder why this was?

Tristan

[Losmandris]

I think in many ways the GSG has been responsible for the development of a lot of the conspiracy theories relating to the case. I just don't buy it, that it was written by the murderer. Did he have some chalk in his pocket? Why was there no other graffiti or messages later on? Surely the murder of MJK would have been the perfect opportunity to write something else?

Tristan

[Losmandris]

Question?

What would have happened to to the rag and indeed all of the victims possessions? Would they have just been thrown away at some some point?

Tristan

[caz]

I would add that Long was diligent enough to check that same entrance when he found the piece of bloodstained cloth there, followed by the writing on the wall, and rightly took action. What made him do that if he had not bothered to check properly on his earlier round? He didn't know about the Mitre Square murder and wasn't actively looking for evidence from a crime scene.

I challenged Trev some years ago on his 'sanitary protection' theory, at a meeting of the Whitechapel Society, during the question and answer session after his talk. A photo of us together taken at the event appeared in the following WS magazine. I pointed out that the twelve pieces of white rag, some slightly bloodstained, which Eddowes had in her possession, were as good as the evidence gets that she had no need to cut up her only apron, even assuming she was still having regular periods. She carried all her possessions around with her, and my instincts tell me the dozen rags would have been washed and used again - like nappies used to be - explaining the slight bloodstaining on some of them, and would have served her perfectly well, pinned as needed to the inside waistband of her petticoat, back and front. The menopause is not instant for most women, so she'd have wanted some protection for at least a few months after her last period. Her possessions also included a piece of flannel and six pieces of soap, suggesting she took as much care of her personal hygiene as her circumstances allowed.

The idea that Eddowes would have used a portion of her apron to clean herself up and discarded it just where the occupants of the Model Dwellings had to tread, is not only implausible, but adds insult to injury concerning the poor woman's habits.

But Trev wasn't listening then, and he ain't about to listen now.

Love,

Caz
X

[Herlock Sholmes]

"It was not there". Nothing vague about that answer to a direct question. Not, I might have missed it....like for example Eagle claims about a body lying there when he returns at 12:40, not could be sure, not I dont think so,...all of which could avoid him appearing seemingly inattentive.

He was sure. If you arent, then thats another matter.

I’m well aware, as is everyone, of your tendency toward over-confidence Michael but at least with you we realise the agenda behind it. Should we be 100% certain that Long was correct just because he sounded confident? Wouldn't life be simpler?

Prosecutor:

“Did you kill x?”

Defendant:

”No I didn’t.”

Prosecutor:

”He sounds absolutely certain Judge.”

Judge:

”I agree. He has to be innocent. The Defendant is free to go.”

......

Ill point out, because experience tells me that you’ll come up with your own version of reality, that I’m not saying that it was there and he missed it. It might not have been there. We have no way of being sure either way.

But can we be certain that Long was diligent in checking? A man who was sacked 9 months later for being drunk on duty?

Im certain that we should certainly abstain from too much certainty in this case. Of that I am quite........sure.

[Michael W Richards]

I think it’s possible that the cloth might have been there when Long first passed. Firstly, as Spyglass has said, dark night, even darker doorway. And second, mightn’t it simply have been the case that he was less vigilant than he claimed to have been?

"It was not there". Nothing vague about that answer to a direct question. Not, I might have missed it....like for example Eagle claims about a body lying there when he returns at 12:40, not could be sure, not I dont think so,...all of which could avoid him appearing seemingly inattentive.

He was sure. If you arent, then thats another matter.

[erobitha]

HI,
Correct me if I'm wrong ( I often am ) but wasnt the statements of Long and Halse written two weeks later after the event?
And were they not so similar to possibly assume they were copied from each other or even told what to write ?

Regards

It was actually 5 weeks later, just before MJK’s murder, the met filed their ‘official’ report to the Home Office. All statements are all nice and neatly aligned this time.

[spyglass]

HI,
Correct me if I'm wrong ( I often am ) but wasnt the statements of Long and Halse written two weeks later after the event?
And were they not so similar to possibly assume they were copied from each other or even told what to write ?

Regards

[Wickerman]

What I find more intriguing is the fact, that the rag/apron was noticed in the first place....unless you were looking for it.

PC Long's own testimony answers that question - "it was not there the previous time around (2:20 am)". So it is not the presence of the rag, but the sudden appearance of the rag.

As I understand it, it was inside the doorway which was dark at dead of night.

It isn't too clear where the rag was, but according to Warren it was at the foot of the entrance to the building, so easily visible to anyone passing on the street.

Alternately, we know from a constable's beat responsibilities, it was part of his duty to try any doors at street level that opened onto the street - to see if they had been locked securely. Just inside the entrance was a stairwell door that he may have been required to see if it was secure. He doesn't mention stepping inside the entry, but he doesn't have to, the coroner will be aware of a constable's duties.

blood on a rag in the dark doesnt stand out as red, only dark.
And so a PC would only at best just glimpse a rag.....nothing out of the ordinary in probably a litter infested part of the East end....certainly nothing suspicious.

There was a streetlamp on the footpath (sidewalk) close by the entrance, so the entrance was not in darkness only the inside vestibule (as they likely referred to it).

[Herlock Sholmes]

I think it’s possible that the cloth might have been there when Long first passed. Firstly, as Spyglass has said, dark night, even darker doorway. And second, mightn’t it simply have been the case that he was less vigilant than he claimed to have been?

[etenguy]

What I find more intriguing is the fact, that the rag/apron was noticed in the first place....unless you were looking for it.
As I understand it, it was inside the doorway which was dark at dead of night.
blood on a rag in the dark doesnt stand out as red, only dark.
And so a PC would only at best just glimpse a rag.....nothing out of the ordinary in probably a litter infested part of the East end....certainly nothing suspicious.

Regards

Hi Spyglass

My (admittedly limited) understanding is that rags were valuable and a scarce commodity in late Victorian times. They were used to produce both paper and currency and there had been a shortage. Therefore, I don't think rags discarded in the street would be an ordinary sight. In fact, it might stand out as unusual which is perhaps why Long could say with some confidence the apron piece was not there earlier that morning and also why it caught his attention.

Perhaps someone with greater understanding of the times might confirm or correct my understanding.

[spyglass]

What I find more intriguing is the fact, that the rag/apron was noticed in the first place....unless you were looking for it.
As I understand it, it was inside the doorway which was dark at dead of night.
blood on a rag in the dark doesnt stand out as red, only dark.
And so a PC would only at best just glimpse a rag.....nothing out of the ordinary in probably a litter infested part of the East end....certainly nothing suspicious.

Regards

[erobitha]

Did Long find the piece of apron in Goulstan Street? What was important enough(To Long) about the piece of apron that Long should ignore regulations and remove it from what he believed might be a crime scene.He could find no evidence of a crime,and by his own admission had not at that time heard of Stride's killing.Was there no other option than to leave his patrol,and take the cloth to the police station?

Maybe he had a fetish for street women’s used sanitary towels?

[harry]

I should have written,Eddowes murder.