Can we profile the Ripper from the GSG?

[curious]

Surely the time gap is relevant to whether the GSG was written by Jack or not? He was gone from Mitre Square by 1.45. Long passed the doorway at 2.20 and saw nothing and so Jack deposited the cloth between 2.20 and 2.55. This means that Jack had been gone from Mitre Square a minimum of 35 minutes and a maximum of, say, an hour before dropping the cloth. Surely he would have wanted to be as far away from the crime scene as possible? For me this indicates deliberation. There were surely many other doorways,passage ways and entries for him to use the cloth to clean himself up. Why stay 10 minutes walk from the hive of police activity in Mitre Square? Is it possible that Jack wrote the GSG directly after leaving his 'aborted' mission in Berner Street where he was disturbed by a Jew in the yard of a Jewish club? Then perhaps he might have thought that no one would know that the message was from him? They would definately get the message if he dropped a piece of his next victims apron next to it.
Yes I agree that, as it stands, we can't be sure of anything. I genuinely don't think that we can dismiss the idea that the GSG was written by Jack.

Maybe the time lapse was his getting back to whereever he came from, cleaning himself up, hearing the man had struck twice when he knew he had not.

I agree with your first post that from the GSG we can gather that the killer was not very tall, was educated enough to have a good "schoolboy" handwriting -- at least when he wanted. Did he hate the Jews or just being blamed for their work? Perhaps he was angry that he had not made enough of an impression that the police would recognize his "work".

curious

[Herlock Sholmes]

Surely the time gap is relevant to whether the GSG was written by Jack or not? He was gone from Mitre Square by 1.45. Long passed the doorway at 2.20 and saw nothing and so Jack deposited the cloth between 2.20 and 2.55. This means that Jack had been gone from Mitre Square a minimum of 35 minutes and a maximum of, say, an hour before dropping the cloth. Surely he would have wanted to be as far away from the crime scene as possible? For me this indicates deliberation. There were surely many other doorways,passage ways and entries for him to use the cloth to clean himself up. Why stay 10 minutes walk from the hive of police activity in Mitre Square? Is it possible that Jack wrote the GSG directly after leaving his 'aborted' mission in Berner Street where he was disturbed by a Jew in the yard of a Jewish club? Then perhaps he might have thought that no one would know that the message was from him? They would definately get the message if he dropped a piece of his next victims apron next to it.
Yes I agree that, as it stands, we can't be sure of anything. I genuinely don't think that we can dismiss the idea that the GSG was written by Jack.

[curious]

The police thought the GSG was undoubtedly written by the murderer
Chief Inspector Henry Moore A on 18 October 1896, MEPO 3/142, ff. 157-9:
You are aware of this internal memo ?

I think the killer`s big moment to speak to the world had been an hour or so earlier in Mitre Square.

God knows what was going thru his head. He`d just been rummaging around in Kate Eddowes belly and the police were on his tail..

Plus, he was crazy to start with. Perhaps, he thought he was being very plain. "Here is how I operate." apron piece placed. "But you are not blaming the Jews for their murder" GSG -- Stride killed at the Berner Street club. The hue and cry was "Another woman has been murdered." meaning the killer has struck again -- at Berner Street. Only he had not and he wanted the police to know that.

Perhaps the killer thought the mutilation of Kate Eddowes was enough, and had assumed that we would know the message was from him because of the rag he placed beneath it.

Hello,
I agree with you, Jon. Plus the follow-up kidney in a box sent to Lusk was probably in the same vein.

I suspect that Elizabeth Stride was not the work of the killer of at least Nichols and Chapman, and the GSG, apron drop and Lusk letter were JtR's way of attempting to get the authorities to recognize that. He was saying THIS is MINE -- this is how I operate -- and perhaps also saying Stride had been killed by someone at the club, but was definitely NOT his work.

Consider a modern day serial killer who did not communicate with police until someone else took credit for his work. He started with graffiti. When that did not work, he sent letters to the media (not the police). I find this an interesting parallel and wonder . . .

http://listverse.com/2015/10/31/10-s...haul-truckers/

curious

[Jon Guy]

And Walter Dew was a beat cop at the time who didn't put any stock in the GSG because such graffiti was apparently commonplace back then.

The police thought the GSG was undoubtedly written by the murderer
Chief Inspector Henry Moore A on 18 October 1896, MEPO 3/142, ff. 157-9:
You are aware of this internal memo ?

If this was the Ripper's big moment to speak to the world, he failed spectacularly..

I think the killer`s big moment to speak to the world had been an hour or so earlier in Mitre Square.

Just some vague, probably antisemitic gabber.

God knows what was going thru his head. He`d just been rummaging around in Kate Eddowes belly and the police were on his tail..

It said absolutely nothing about the murders or the murderer himself.

Perhaps the killer thought the mutilation of Kate Eddowes was enough, and had assumed that we would know the message was from him because of the rag he placed beneath it.

[Abby Normal]

And Walter Dew was a beat cop at the time who didn't put any stock in the GSG because such graffiti was apparently commonplace back then. We'll never know either way but I'm inclined to agree with Wally on this one. The killer ducked into the alleyway for whatever reason, deposited the apron piece and scarpered. It just happened to land near a piece of vague graffiti about der Juden.

If this was the Ripper's big moment to speak to the world, he failed spectacularly. Just some vague, probably antisemitic gabber. It said absolutely nothing about the murders or the murderer himself.

Did he really fail spectacularly? Sent the police into a tizzy, helped settle the hash of the commish, and the confusion lasts till this day!

And to those who say well why wasn't it written bigger or more clear in its message? Who knows, but shouldn't any graffiti be written bigger and more clear? If your mad at sam the butcher, or just want to spew anti Semitic insults it should also be big and clear like DONT BUY FROM SAM, or JEWS ARE PIGS!

See what I mean.

The killer knew exactly why he wrote it and what it means and that's all that matters, not what we think he should have wrote.

[Harry D]

And Walter Dew was a beat cop at the time who didn't put any stock in the GSG because such graffiti was apparently commonplace back then. We'll never know either way but I'm inclined to agree with Wally on this one. The killer ducked into the alleyway for whatever reason, deposited the apron piece and scarpered. It just happened to land near a piece of vague graffiti about der Juden.

If this was the Ripper's big moment to speak to the world, he failed spectacularly. Just some vague, probably antisemitic gabber. It said absolutely nothing about the murders or the murderer himself.

[Jon Guy]

More specifically, in reference to the subject matter of this thread, I consider it a very real possibility that graffito was a reference to the anti-Jewish riots which had followed Chapman’s demise. In other words, the graffito's author was mindful that the murders were being blamed on the Jewish community (as he well intended) and that he maliciously sought to reinforce the point: that the rioters had been correct in their assumption.

Absolutely, CNR.
Supt Arnold was thinking the same too.

What does this tell us ?
The killer was local and witnessed the trouble on the day of Chapman`s murder ?
The killer was Jewish and the GSG was in response to the accusations ?
The killer was not Jewish and trying to cause another riot ?

[c.d.]

Thank you, Stephen,

I think I am going to require some political influence or will have to grease a few palms to accomplish that.

c.d.

[cnr]

Hello Stephen,

First of all welcome to the boards.

Many thanks for the welcome aboard, c.d.. Wishing you a swift journey on your way to Commissioner.

[Abby Normal]

Hi Abby,

It's Stephen here, author of Jewbaiter Jack The Ripper: New Evidence & Theory. My daughter's kindly allowed me to use her Casebook account, as I don't have one yet.

I'd just like to add to your points above, the cry of “Lipski” (an anti-Semitic epithet) as delivered in Berner Street, only a few hours previous to the graffito's discovery in Goulston Street. As well as the location of the murders on the night in question: a Jewish radical club / newspaper, and behind the Great Synagogue (Mitre Square).

More specifically, in reference to the subject matter of this thread, I consider it a very real possibility that graffito was a reference to the anti-Jewish riots which had followed Chapman’s demise. In other words, the graffito's author was mindful that the murders were being blamed on the Jewish community (as he well intended) and that he maliciously sought to reinforce the point: that the rioters had been correct in their assumption. As you may be aware my thesis proposes that Jack The Ripper was an anti-Semite.

I also note your and Sam's geographic reference/s to the Victoria Home, and would like to add that, if indeed, there was some kind of back yard access to the property via Castle Court, the fact that there were was an “external back washing room” and “back yard w.c.” may potentially have afforded the killer some degree of privacy and anonymity of movement. The quotes here come from never previously published correspondence between the owner of the Commercial Street property, Miss Amelia Levy and the lessee, Lord Radstock, providing a glimpse of its physical make up at the commencement of the lease in 1887 and 1888.

Kind regards.

Hi Stephen
Yes I think there was a good chance the ripper was an anti Semite in general. My take on it is that he might also have a specific Jewish man (or specific type of Jewish man) in mind. Which involved a lot of jealousy.

[c.d.]

Hello Stephen,

First of all welcome to the boards.

I think making a Jewish connection to events of that night is stretching it to say the least. I personally don't think that Jack wrote the GSG but even if he did I certainly don't see anything particularly malicious in its intent which seems rather strange given the chance he took to apparently vent his anger. To me, it is more on the level of a customer who thought the butcher was resting his thumb on the scale when he rang up the meat.

And even if we could be sure that the intent of the GSG was anti-semetic it would still not tell us that the author was a Jew hater as it is entirely possible that he himself was a Jew and simply wanted to throw the police off the track.

c.d.

[cnr]

What are the only two pieces of direct evidence that specifically use and or implicate Jews?

The gsg and George Hutchinson's suspect. One following right after another.

NOt only that but I think the gsg and hutchs ostentatiously dressed Jewish suspect both exhibit signs of dislike, jealousy and blame.

Hi Abby,

It's Stephen here, author of Jewbaiter Jack The Ripper: New Evidence & Theory. My daughter's kindly allowed me to use her Casebook account, as I don't have one yet.

I'd just like to add to your points above, the cry of “Lipski” (an anti-Semitic epithet) as delivered in Berner Street, only a few hours previous to the graffito's discovery in Goulston Street. As well as the location of the murders on the night in question: a Jewish radical club / newspaper, and behind the Great Synagogue (Mitre Square).

More specifically, in reference to the subject matter of this thread, I consider it a very real possibility that graffito was a reference to the anti-Jewish riots which had followed Chapman’s demise. In other words, the graffito's author was mindful that the murders were being blamed on the Jewish community (as he well intended) and that he maliciously sought to reinforce the point: that the rioters had been correct in their assumption. As you may be aware my thesis proposes that Jack The Ripper was an anti-Semite.

I also note your and Sam's geographic reference/s to the Victoria Home, and would like to add that, if indeed, there was some kind of back yard access to the property via Castle Court, the fact that there were was an “external back washing room” and “back yard w.c.” may potentially have afforded the killer some degree of privacy and anonymity of movement. The quotes here come from never previously published correspondence between the owner of the Commercial Street property, Miss Amelia Levy and the lessee, Lord Radstock, providing a glimpse of its physical make up at the commencement of the lease in 1887 and 1888.

Kind regards.

[DJA]

I'll throw this in and you can deride at will.

Thanks for the intro

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goulstonian_Lecture

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Osler

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hereditary_hemorrhagic_telangiectasia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Gawen_Sutton

http://photos.casebook.org/displayimage.php?album=34&pos=4

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catechu

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astringent

[Joshua Rogan]

If not a clue to him, maybe another Goldstein perhaps.

Leon Goldstein, of black bag fame?

[MysterySinger]

I'll throw this in and you can deride at will.

Perhaps the choice of Goulston Street was a deliberate clue. In the area at that time was a Levi Goldstein, sometimes corrupted in the workhouse records as Goulston. He was a Hebrew tailor aged around 35 in 1888 and seemed to move address frequently - Brick Lane (1886), Osborn Place (1888) and maybe Booth Street (1888). If not a clue to him, maybe another Goldstein perhaps.