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Two authentic comms from the Ripper?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by etenguy View Post
    Hi Abby. Thanks. I think you and I have similar views with regard the GSG and Lusk letter.

    My thinking is similar to yours regarding the reason for sending a letter to Lusk. But that is pure speculation with nothing to support it, other than it provides a plausible possibility.

    I differ with you with regard to the Kelly murder. Again, pure speculation, but I think he actively sought a safer environment. But it could have simply been an accident of opportunity.
    Hi eten
    on second thought, maybe he did target his next victim for an indoor kill.

    Ive often thought that Mary Kelly is probably the key to the case in terms of the identity of the ripper, since the evidence seems to point to her knowing her killer.

    perhaps he knew her, knew she was recently single again, and with the events of the night of the double event in mind, sought her out knowing he might get her alone in her room. need to think about it a bit more.
    "Is all that we see or seem
    but a dream within a dream?"

    -Edgar Allan Poe


    "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
    quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

    -Frederick G. Abberline

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
      Hi eten
      on second thought, maybe he did target his next victim for an indoor kill.
      It's a theory that fits the facts, and one which I find compelling, but we would need more information to be sure.

      Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
      Ive often thought that Mary Kelly is probably the key to the case in terms of the identity of the ripper, since the evidence seems to point to her knowing her killer.
      I too think Mary Kelly is an interesting victim and may well have more to tell us. I'd be interested to hear why you think she knew her killer - I haven't a view on that one way or the other.

      Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
      perhaps he knew her, knew she was recently single again, and with the events of the night of the double event in mind, sought her out knowing he might get her alone in her room. need to think about it a bit more.
      I really struggle to understand how anyone could commit the murders he did, but find it even harder to understand how he could do that to someone he knew. But then he isn't me.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by etenguy View Post
        It's a theory that fits the facts, and one which I find compelling, but we would need more information to be sure.



        I too think Mary Kelly is an interesting victim and may well have more to tell us. I'd be interested to hear why you think she knew her killer - I haven't a view on that one way or the other.



        I really struggle to understand how anyone could commit the murders he did, but find it even harder to understand how he could do that to someone he knew. But then he isn't me.
        Hi eten
        RE why I think Mary knew her killer.

        According to the witnesses, Mary was in the company of four men that night: Barnett, blotchy, hutch and aman. I would venture one of these men were Mary’s killer.

        Barnett- ex boyfriend
        Blotchy- there behavior indicates it was more than just a first night meeting.
        Hutch- knew her for several years
        Aman- probably fictional but even if real, behavior similar to blotchy.

        My money is on blotchy or hutch.

        And even if it wasn’t one of these four men, her being murdered in her own room indicates they knew each other.
        "Is all that we see or seem
        but a dream within a dream?"

        -Edgar Allan Poe


        "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
        quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

        -Frederick G. Abberline

        Comment


        • #34
          I too believe that Mary knew her killer and while that is certainly a tantalizing lead the problem is that "knew" could include someone she had just recently met even someone she had met earlier that day. I think her killer is someone we have no knowledge of.

          c.d.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by c.d. View Post
            I too believe that Mary knew her killer and while that is certainly a tantalizing lead the problem is that "knew" could include someone she had just recently met even someone she had met earlier that day. I think her killer is someone we have no knowledge of.

            c.d.
            hi CD
            if it wasn't one of the four men I mentioned then do you think the unknown killer was someone who came to her door or she went out again after blotchy/hutch/aman?
            "Is all that we see or seem
            but a dream within a dream?"

            -Edgar Allan Poe


            "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
            quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

            -Frederick G. Abberline

            Comment


            • #36
              Hello Abby,

              My gut feeling is that she let someone in who she only knew slightly but who had made a tentative appointment to come by. I don't think it was any of the four previously mentioned. I think she was killed by the Ripper.

              c.d.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by c.d. View Post
                Hello Abby,

                My gut feeling is that she let someone in who she only knew slightly but who had made a tentative appointment to come by. I don't think it was any of the four previously mentioned. I think she was killed by the Ripper.

                c.d.
                It would be interesting to know how you came to that conclusion. Reasons to consider that Kelly either knew or was acquainted with her killer include:

                a) she was killed in her home and there are no signs of forced entry
                b) it would appear she was relaxed when killed - lying on her bed and no signs of a struggle

                Of course, these are hardly conclusive and alternative explanations exist. Is there anything else that leads you to your conclusion?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Hello eten,

                  While it is certainly possible that an otherwise ordinary person can snap and do the most incredibly sick things I see no reason to go there (i.e., Barnett or some other past lover) when we already have a suspect who fits the bill perfectly (i.e., the killer of the other C4). If Barnett or any of her lovers did kill her then I would have to believe that he was also the Ripper and I just don't see that.

                  I see evidence that the Ripper was cautious at times leaving the scene before mutilating his victim as in Nichols and Stride. I do believe that he had decided to move indoors in order to avoid the police on the streets and to have more time alone with his victim. Being cautious, I think he would have thought this through. Breaking into the victim's room had its dangers as did going back to the room or dwelling of a victim he had never met.

                  As for Mary, it appears that it was not her practice to bring back customers to her room although that could simply be because Barnett disproved of it.

                  It was cold and rainy that night and Mary had been drinking with Blotchy. Even if she did go out on the streets it is not hard to believe that she might not have stayed long.

                  There is evidence that she had spent time at the Ten Bells earlier in the week. Could she have shared a drink there with the Ripper? Certainly possible. If so, it is not unreasonable to think that she shared details of her circumstances and suggested that he come by at some point.

                  Her singing with Blotchy seems to indicate that she was in a good mood that night even though her financial situation was not good with Barnett having moved out and her owing back rent. I have often wondered if this good mood was because she expected a customer that evening who she believed to have money and who could be a sugar daddy of sorts. The Ripper could have given her that impression at the Ten Bells.

                  She could have been wearing her chemise in expectation of entertaining a customer and folded it neatly on the chair ready to put on if and when he showed up.

                  So, I do think Mary knew her killer but that is was simply someone she had met earlier.

                  So again, this is all pure speculation and is simply a gut feeling as I said before.

                  c.d.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by c.d. View Post
                    Hello eten,

                    While it is certainly possible that an otherwise ordinary person can snap and do the most incredibly sick things I see no reason to go there (i.e., Barnett or some other past lover) when we already have a suspect who fits the bill perfectly (i.e., the killer of the other C4). If Barnett or any of her lovers did kill her then I would have to believe that he was also the Ripper and I just don't see that.

                    I see evidence that the Ripper was cautious at times leaving the scene before mutilating his victim as in Nichols and Stride. I do believe that he had decided to move indoors in order to avoid the police on the streets and to have more time alone with his victim. Being cautious, I think he would have thought this through. Breaking into the victim's room had its dangers as did going back to the room or dwelling of a victim he had never met.

                    As for Mary, it appears that it was not her practice to bring back customers to her room although that could simply be because Barnett disproved of it.

                    It was cold and rainy that night and Mary had been drinking with Blotchy. Even if she did go out on the streets it is not hard to believe that she might not have stayed long.

                    There is evidence that she had spent time at the Ten Bells earlier in the week. Could she have shared a drink there with the Ripper? Certainly possible. If so, it is not unreasonable to think that she shared details of her circumstances and suggested that he come by at some point.

                    Her singing with Blotchy seems to indicate that she was in a good mood that night even though her financial situation was not good with Barnett having moved out and her owing back rent. I have often wondered if this good mood was because she expected a customer that evening who she believed to have money and who could be a sugar daddy of sorts. The Ripper could have given her that impression at the Ten Bells.

                    She could have been wearing her chemise in expectation of entertaining a customer and folded it neatly on the chair ready to put on if and when he showed up.

                    So, I do think Mary knew her killer but that is was simply someone she had met earlier.

                    So again, this is all pure speculation and is simply a gut feeling as I said before.

                    c.d.
                    Thanks C.D. It all sounds perfectly plausible. I too think it likely that the Ripper was not a complete stranger to Kelly. But as you say, that could simply mean a recent acquaintance. Also, like you, it seems to make sense to me that would be the case but there is little evidence to support this position.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by c.d. View Post
                      Hello Abby,

                      My gut feeling is that she let someone in who she only knew slightly but who had made a tentative appointment to come by. I don't think it was any of the four previously mentioned. I think she was killed by the Ripper.

                      c.d.
                      hi CD
                      Thanks. I don't see any evidence of any kind of pre arranged appointment though. She was apparently with four different men that night and pretty drunk, spending considerable time with blotchy in her place. dosnt seem like the behavior of someone with a plan to meet someone at her place.

                      Plus she wasn't known to bring clients to her place.


                      according to witnesses she was with four men that night and I would imagine that one was probably her killer and the ripper.


                      then you've also got the bethnal green botherer lurking about close by so that makes 5 suspicious men to me that could have been the murderer.


                      and then theres bowyer, who found her body and said in a press account he was in the court in the middle of the night so theres six "named" men.Along with the idea that the circs that night point to Mary knowing her killer I think the probability is slightly better than average one of these six men could be her killer.


                      I don't go much for the phantom ripper idea.
                      "Is all that we see or seem
                      but a dream within a dream?"

                      -Edgar Allan Poe


                      "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                      quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                      -Frederick G. Abberline

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Hello Abby,

                        I was simply pointing out that if Mary let her killer into her room it didn't necessarily have to be someone that she knew well nor did he have to have an appointment. If she met someone earlier that week (the Ripper) she could casually have said something like come by some time.

                        c.d.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by c.d. View Post
                          Hello Abby,

                          I was simply pointing out that if Mary let her killer into her room it didn't necessarily have to be someone that she knew well nor did he have to have an appointment. If she met someone earlier that week (the Ripper) she could casually have said something like come by some time.

                          c.d.
                          oh got it. yes totally agree.
                          "Is all that we see or seem
                          but a dream within a dream?"

                          -Edgar Allan Poe


                          "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                          quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                          -Frederick G. Abberline

                          Comment

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