If the 'Dear Boss' letter is a hoax...

[John G]

[QUOTE=Pierre;394310]

The double event was connected to a double problem in the life of the killer.

Source?

[Elamarna]

Hi Steve

As long as I can not present the relevant sources to you I can not discuss them with you. And I am not interested in arguing "my position" since I have no position. I do research and have sources. The sources demand that I go on with this until it is finished.

Regards, Pierre

Pierre


Of course you can present the sources, it is your choice not to.

It is a choice not to discuss, not something you have no control over.



In this example the position was that the letter should be seen to mean:

"The Ripper Letter is using a metaphorical language. It gives the information that the killer will strike on September 30th in "the Minories" were he will kill two women. The Minories was an old parish covering both the murder sites."


That was your viewpoint, it is the position you take on the letter

I therefore find the claim you have no position to be highly disingenuous.


Pierre, lets just stop this repeating that the "sources demand", at other times it is that you "owe it to history" to complete this.

Lets be clear, nothing makes you do this:

You claim you are not a ripperologist,
You claim you have no personal/family connection to the crimes or the data sources.

You are doing this because YOU WANT TO.

Steve

[John G]

It is no guess. There is an external source also.

External source?

[Pierre]

Until today you've said repeatedly that Stride and Eddowes were murdered in the Minories. Now you've changed your position to say no more than that the killer walked through the Minories. If he did so, it must have been well after midnight mustn't it?

Letter said: "I shall be at work...in Minories at twelve midnight."

Even if you are right and the killer had to walk through the Minories (which is not, in fact, true) and even if you are right that the letter was written on 29 September 1888 rather than 1889 (about which you cannot establish), how could the murders possibly have been prevented by knowing that the killer might walk through the Minories at midnight?

The letter is normative. And the crime is close to the norm.

[Pierre]

What you mean to say is that you speculate that 1st and 2nd inst. are not murder dates. Normally, "1st and 2nd inst." would be understood as a reference to dates. It's no more than a guess on your part that they refer to murder victims.

But all this is moot considering that the year the letter was written is not stated in Hall Richardson's book. How do you know the letter wasn't written in 1889?

It is no guess. There is an external source also.

[David Orsam]

And he had to be in the Minories to get from Stride to Eddowes.

Until today you've said repeatedly that Stride and Eddowes were murdered in the Minories. Now you've changed your position to say no more than that the killer walked through the Minories. If he did so, it must have been well after midnight mustn't it?

Letter said: "I shall be at work...in Minories at twelve midnight."

Even if you are right and the killer had to walk through the Minories (which is not, in fact, true) and even if you are right that the letter was written on 29 September 1888 rather than 1889 (about which you cannot establish), how could the murders possibly have been prevented by knowing that the killer might walk through the Minories at midnight?

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=John G;394307]

Or maybe the resson Eddowes was killed was because he failed to mutilate Stride. Or maybe Stride was killed by someone else. Methinks an historian would consider all possibilities before jumping to outlandish and far fetched conclusions.

The double event was connected to a double problem in the life of the killer.

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=David Orsam;394304]

He might have walked through the Minories, Pierre (we don't know the route he took), but what does that matter?

It included his MO. That is why it matters.

The letter stated that he would be "at work" in the Minories. How does walking through the Minories equate to being "at work" in the Minories?

He was searching for his victims. That is what serial killers often do before they kill their victims. But letīs not bother about other serial killers. That was what HE DID.

You are not seriously suggesting are you that police surveillance in the Minories would have prevented anyone from walking from Berner Street to Mitre Square are you?

Have I used the word "prevent"?

[John G]

[QUOTE=Pierre;394302]

Do you think he flew from Berner Street to Mitre Square? Was he not in the Minories?



The 1st and 2nd are not dates, David. They are murder victims.

Read: inst.

There was just one single day left to perform the murders. That day was 30 September.

And he had to be in the Minories to get from Stride to Eddowes.

Or maybe the resson Eddowes was killed was because he failed to mutilate Stride. Or maybe Stride was killed by someone else. Methinks an historian would consider all possibilities before jumping to outlandish and far fetched conclusions.

[David Orsam]

The 1st and 2nd are not dates, David. They are murder victims.

Read: inst.

There was just one single day left to perform the murders. That day was 30 September.

What you mean to say is that you speculate that 1st and 2nd inst. are not murder dates. Normally, "1st and 2nd inst." would be understood as a reference to dates. It's no more than a guess on your part that they refer to murder victims.

But all this is moot considering that the year the letter was written is not stated in Hall Richardson's book. How do you know the letter wasn't written in 1889?

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=Elamarna;394303]

Pierre

Changing the "goal Posts" again

You claimed Mitre Square and Berner street were both in the parish of Holy Trinity Minories, that is not true!

I claimed that The Minories was not just a street. It was an ancient parish.

You claimed that the letter meant that two women would be killed in the Minories, starting at midnight, again that is untrue.

He will be at work on them. What does this mean? Does it mean the isolated act of cutting them? Or does it mean the modus operandi including finding them?

it seems that basic research, checking of data had not been done before posting an hypothesis, Not very professional for an academic historian.

Bla bla bla.

Now it seems you are saying the sites are nearby and that is what was meant, that is different from the claim you made.

It is a fact.

NO one is fooled by any of this.

My intention is not, like the intentions of many others, who are fools themselves, to fool people.

[David Orsam]

Do you think he flew from Berner Street to Mitre Square? Was he not in the Minories?

He might have walked through the Minories, Pierre (we don't know the route he took), but what does that matter? The letter stated that he would be "at work" in the Minories. How does walking through the Minories equate to being "at work" in the Minories?

You are not seriously suggesting are you that police surveillance in the Minories would have prevented anyone from walking from Berner Street to Mitre Square are you?

[Elamarna]

Of course I ignore your silly posts. The Minories - and that is the street - is a 3 minutes walk from Mitre Square.

Pierre

Changing the "goal Posts" again

You claimed Mitre Square and Berner street were both in the parish of Holy Trinity Minories, that is not true!

You claimed that the letter meant that two women would be killed in the Minories, starting at midnight, again that is untrue.



it seems that basic research, checking of data had not been done before posting an hypothesis, Not very professional for an academic historian.


Now it seems you are saying the sites are nearby and that is what was meant, that is different from the claim you made.

NO one is fooled by any of this.


Steve

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=David Orsam;394300]

No-one, Pierre, least of all me, is denying that Mitre Square is near to the Minories (both the street and parish) but it is not in the Minories. While Berner Street is some distance away from the Minories.

Do you think he flew from Berner Street to Mitre Square? Was he not in the Minories?

The letter in question read "I shall be at work on the 1st and 2nd inst. in the Minories".

So, on any view, the supposed "prediction" in the letter did not come true did it? That being so, you have nothing, do you?

The 1st and 2nd are not dates, David. They are murder victims.

Read: inst.

There was just one single day left to perform the murders. That day was 30 September.

And he had to be in the Minories to get from Stride to Eddowes.

[Pierre]

Pierre

The non response to posts #164 by myself and #169 by David say so much.

Will you accept the statement you made with regards to the letter mentioning the Minories was incorrect?

Are you able to argue your position with reasoned debate and historical data?

Steve

Hi Steve

As long as I can not present the relevant sources to you I can not discuss them with you. And I am not interested in arguing "my position" since I have no position. I do research and have sources. The sources demand that I go on with this until it is finished.

Regards, Pierre