Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Use of "Buckled" To Denote Arrest

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Use of "Buckled" To Denote Arrest

    I have just read the thread started by Archaic on the use of the phrase "I am down on..." to indicate strong disapproval (in the "Dear Boss" & elsewhere).
    Following on from that, what does everyone think of the use of the word "buckled", in the same letter, suggesting, from the context "arrest" or capture"? Has anyone ever seen or heard of its use anywhere else in this way? (Personally I have no recollection of seeing this word used to indicate arrest, except in the DB or, as here, in references to it).

    If it's not used elsewhere with that meaning, should we be taking a closer look at Buckle Street and its residents for the writer of the DB? There are only 12 Buckle Streets on the UK mainland, 1 in Sale, 1 in Peterborough, 9 in or near Evesham & only 1 within 85 miles of London - just south of Whitechapel High Street.
    "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

  • #2
    Hi Bridewell

    The writer may not have meant anything so specific as "arrested" - he might simply have meant "beaten," "squashed" etc. However there is a modern usage of "busted" to indicate arrest or capture, so maybe you're on the right track.

    Comment


    • #3
      "Buckled" occurred straight after the mention of Leather Apron, and it's interesting to note that "Buckle my shoe" was apparently rhyming slang for "Jew," though presumably it wouldn't make sense for someone to speak of being "Jewed."

      Comment


      • #4
        In the way it was used in the letter, 'buckled' was American slang meaning that someone's opponent is closing in on them; just like a belt buckle is the connecting devive that holds a belt or strap around something.
        Best Wishes,
        Hunter
        ____________________________________________

        When evidence is not to be had, theories abound. Even the most plausible of them do not carry conviction- London Times Nov. 10.1888

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Bridewell

          I found these examples on Old Bailey Online.

          From 1869:

          CHRISTOPHER GOULD . (Police Sergeant C 14). I went to 43, Old Pye Street with Upson—I found Wythe in bed with a woman—I told him I should take him in custody for being concerned with Metcalfe in a burglary at, 19, Lisle Street—he said "Very well, it's rather warm"—I searched him, and found these two skeleton keys (produced), I tried one of those to the door of 19, Lisle Street, and it fitted—I found three other skeleton keys and a common door-key on the mantelshelf—on the way to the station he said, "You have buckled me to rights this time, but don't heap too much on me"—at the station Metcalfe said, "Will you tell me who gave you the information where to find us? Had we known that you were coming you


          This from 1870:

          WILLIAM HAYDON (Police Sergeant G). I went to 3, Leopards Court, where Ferguson lives, and assisted in searching the room—I found this pistol in the coal cupboard, on a shelf, loaded with ball cartridge and capped—I also found all these skeleton keys (produced), this jemmy and centrepiece, and these four bits and a file—they were altogether in a bag, between the boarding and the wall of the room—I found this small key in the bag—I took it to the prosecutor's house, and tried it to the door, and it fitted—I also found a mask in the bag with the pistol—I took Ferguson into custody, and charged him—he said "You have buckled me this time. I know I shall get a long term, give it me fair"—I took this jemmy down to the house in Great Queen Street, and compared it with the marks on the window, and they corresponded exactly in width.

          This from 1877:

          I first saw Froggatt on 4th December, at the corner of Southampton Row, with Meiklejohn, who said "Of course you know Benson is buckled"—I said "Yes, I heard it to-day"—buckled means arrested—


          From 1893:

          EDWARD KITCHEN (Detective S). On 8th June I was at Hendon Station when the prisoners were brought in—Shelton said, "It is a rare job to come down here and get buckled. "

          Comment


          • #6
            Question answered!

            Comment


            • #7
              Cor Blimey, Guvnor!

              Originally posted by Jon Guy View Post
              Hi Bridewell

              I found these examples on Old Bailey Online.

              From 1869:

              CHRISTOPHER GOULD . (Police Sergeant C 14). I went to 43, Old Pye Street with Upson—I found Wythe in bed with a woman—I told him I should take him in custody for being concerned with Metcalfe in a burglary at, 19, Lisle Street—he said "Very well, it's rather warm"—I searched him, and found these two skeleton keys (produced), I tried one of those to the door of 19, Lisle Street, and it fitted—I found three other skeleton keys and a common door-key on the mantelshelf—on the way to the station he said, "You have buckled me to rights this time, but don't heap too much on me"—at the station Metcalfe said, "Will you tell me who gave you the information where to find us? Had we known that you were coming you


              This from 1870:

              WILLIAM HAYDON (Police Sergeant G). I went to 3, Leopards Court, where Ferguson lives, and assisted in searching the room—I found this pistol in the coal cupboard, on a shelf, loaded with ball cartridge and capped—I also found all these skeleton keys (produced), this jemmy and centrepiece, and these four bits and a file—they were altogether in a bag, between the boarding and the wall of the room—I found this small key in the bag—I took it to the prosecutor's house, and tried it to the door, and it fitted—I also found a mask in the bag with the pistol—I took Ferguson into custody, and charged him—he said "You have buckled me this time. I know I shall get a long term, give it me fair"—I took this jemmy down to the house in Great Queen Street, and compared it with the marks on the window, and they corresponded exactly in width.

              This from 1877:

              I first saw Froggatt on 4th December, at the corner of Southampton Row, with Meiklejohn, who said "Of course you know Benson is buckled"—I said "Yes, I heard it to-day"—buckled means arrested—


              From 1893:

              EDWARD KITCHEN (Detective S). On 8th June I was at Hendon Station when the prisoners were brought in—Shelton said, "It is a rare job to come down here and get buckled. "

              Hi Jon,

              Astonishing - & slightly embarrassing - that you found three examples so easily. If the intended meaning is "arrested", as in the Old Bailey examples, (which seems likely) I think a British author more likely than an American; if a journalist, perhaps one used to working as a court reporter?

              Robert,

              As you say - question answered. I'm intrigued by the idea of "Buckle My Shoe" being rhyming slang for Jew though:

              "One two, buckle my shoe" = Jew.
              "Three four, knock at the door" = Whore perhaps?!
              "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

              Comment


              • #8
                Have just quickly looked up "One two, buckle my shoe" (the nursery rhyme). It's suggested that the content relates to lace-making:

                http://www.rhymes.org.uk/one_two_buckle_my_shoe.htm
                "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

                Comment


                • #9
                  I always thought "buckled" referred to handcuffs.

                  c.d.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    American

                    Hello Bridewell.

                    "If the intended meaning is "arrested", as in the Old Bailey examples, (which seems likely) I think a British author more likely than an American."

                    Of course, there's still "Boss" and "fix."

                    Cheers.
                    LC

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      "Buckled"

                      Hi Bridewell, Robert, Cris, Jon and CD! Knowing that I love exploring the origins of old slang, a friend sent me this thread.

                      The term "Buckled" meant to be caught, arrested, forced to yield, and even married!

                      These two definitions are from an 1874 dictionary-

                      1. "Buckled, to be married, or to be taken into custody. Both uses of the word common and interchangeable among the London lower classes. "

                      (Seeing as "halter" was slang for "altar", one can see how this dual usage came about. Interestingly, "halter" was also slang for the hangman's rope.)

                      2. "Buckle, to bend. “I can’t buckle to that.” To yield or give in to a person. Shakespeare used the word in the latter sense in ‘Henry IV.'’"


                      I also found these related terms:

                      "Bucklers: Fetters."

                      "Buckler: Collar (presumably as in an “iron collar”, which often accompanied fetters."


                      (The word "Fetters'' refers to the heavy iron leg bands, manacles, chains, etc., used in the old days before modern handcuffs.)

                      Gee, I kinda miss the old "LVP Slang" thread we used to do!

                      Take care everybody,
                      Archaic

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi Lynn

                        Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
                        Of course, there's still "Boss" and "fix."
                        Some examples of Boss and Fix from the Old Bailey Online.

                        1859:

                        MR. ATKINSON. Q. What is the meaning of the word "tumble?" A. "Know us;" "I told you he would know us."
                        COURT. Q. Does it mean Fix on us?" A. Yes; it is a word I have repeatedly heard used among thieves.


                        1883:

                        WILLIAM OLDHAMPSTEAD (City Detective). On 30th July I saw the prisoner in a cart opposite the Tower—I said to him "Boss, I want to speak to you; I am going to take you into custody for being concerned with two other men, who have been convicted, for obtaining a quantity of goods from Messrs. Outram, of 13, Watling Street, on the 19th instant

                        1883:

                        about noon the prisoner said to me "Your boss is not about, if you will give me six bags I will give you half-a-sovereign; you may as well have that for stopping out in the cold"—

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi Jon

                          Great finds here of the use of "buckled," "fix" and "boss" in the Old Bailey Online, particularly before 1888. Well done. I have never thought that the use of "boss" was particularly American as has often been said.

                          Chris
                          Christopher T. George
                          Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conference
                          just held in Baltimore, April 7-8, 2018.
                          For information about RipperCon, go to http://rippercon.com/
                          RipperCon 2018 talks can now be heard at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
                            Hi Jon

                            Great finds here of the use of "buckled," "fix" and "boss" in the Old Bailey Online, particularly before 1888. Well done. I have never thought that the use of "boss" was particularly American as has often been said.

                            Chris
                            Actually, I feel the same way, but in looking on the net I found this:

                            "Boss is Dutch in origin and is a bastardization of the Dutch "base." Its use was a uniquely American way of avoiding the word "master," which had quickly become associated with slavery by the mid-19th century. Of course, bosses are far from slave drivers (though I know a few people who would love to argue that point), so the new Dutch word was a convenient moniker for the rising capitalistic equivalent of the corporate figurehead.

                            However, that is not to say that an Englishman couldn't adopt an American term. The world is quite small these days and it happens all the time."

                            http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question...8114300AAOxOvr

                            http://books.google.com/books?id=peQ...master&f=false

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The findng of these terms in the Old Bailey Online might reinforce the idea that the person who wrote "Dear Boss" was a court reporter who was used to the terms used in the criminal underworld.
                              Christopher T. George
                              Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conference
                              just held in Baltimore, April 7-8, 2018.
                              For information about RipperCon, go to http://rippercon.com/
                              RipperCon 2018 talks can now be heard at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X