Dear Boss

[Mishter Lusk]

Forgive me if this point has already been brought up, as I haven't read this entire thread through.

But it seems to me like it would have been a (fairly) simple task trying to identify Jack through this letter. All the police would have had to do is ask any and all hospitals in the area if any of their 40-something year old female cadavers with Bright's are missing any kidneys. If not, then that pins the sent kidney to Eddowes and the police have a handwriting sample.

Then it's just a matter of demanding a handwriting sample from everyone in town, and if someone doesn't comply, they're taken in to spend some time in prison and fined, and still have to submit a sample. If the Ripper's in town, they would find him this way.

I don't know though...perhaps there's an aspect I overlooked. I'm betting there is.

-Aaron

[mariab]

Lynn Cates wrote:
Actually, it was added by their signatures.
Right, I remember your little quizz! That was fun. I just realised that this is a recent discovery.
Prof. Fishman, author of 2 books about the anarchist movement in Victorian London? (The one I, in my innocent newbie status, initially mistook for our Swede friend, Fisherman?!)
I gotta cook this duck thing, or I'll be dead before it's done.

[mariab]

Gentlemen,
possibly in a couple of weeks (when I get back to Berlin, NOT from Paris) I'd be willing to help a little bit with research, if it's online. (But I doubt it severely that data on “sweaters“ and laborers unions from the late 1880's through 1890's are listed online in the UK!)
Now really to make something to eat. I'm having convulsions like Jessica Alba in Dark Angel (when deprived of milk/Tryptophan)...

[lynn cates]

material

Hello Tom.

"There won't be much to find now on the IWEC, but you should be able to locate documents pertaining to Wess' various sweaters and laborers unions from the late 1880's through 1890's, and that is the most likely place you're liable to find a Schwartz/Wess link."

And I may know just the chap for this--Professor Fishman who, I believe, is professor emeritus and still alive. He is a mine of information.

Oops! I think I am hijacking a thread.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Wess & Wess

Hello Maria.

"Lynn's approach is precisely the same as yours, but he added William Wess' and his brother's visits to William Morris' Farringdon Street Socialist club, and William Morris article in The Commonweal."

Actually, it was added by their signatures. And the William Morris material--a good bit of that is online and more is lying here and there in libraries and archives.

Cheers.
LC

[mariab]

Tom,
Lynn's approach is precisely the same as yours, but he added William Wess' and his brother's visits to William Morris' Farringdon Street Socialist club, and William Morris article in The Commonweal.
That William Wess did the interpreter for Leon Goldstein is new (and very relevant) information to me.
Good luck in occupying the entire Top 40 of Ripperology for weeks on end.

[Tom_Wescott]

Lynn,

There won't be much to find now on the IWEC, but you should be able to locate documents pertaining to Wess' various sweaters and laborers unions from the late 1880's through 1890's, and that is the most likely place you're liable to find a Schwartz/Wess link.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[lynn cates]

IS

Hello Tom. Your second star is the "snap" of a piece in the puzzle. That is what fixes my attention. If only there were a hint of real corroboration from BEYOND the IWMEC, I might change my mind. As it is, well, as you say, these guys dealt in propaganda.

Sadly, I have found nothing new on Schwartz. Of course, being up to my ears in students doesn't help me with research time.

Cheers.
LC

[Tom_Wescott]

So the “box of toys“ postcard is lost. But perhaps we have the transcribed content? (No, you didn't reference it, I picked it up from doing a search on Joseph Aarons on casebook.)
So the "From Hell" letter wasn't written in red ink? But then why is it posted in red here on casebook?!?

Yes, we know the content. I wrote an essay about the From Hell/Dear Boss/Box of Toys connection years ago, and I believe it's in the Dissertations section. Not sure of the title or the quality of content, as I was a wee one when I wrote it and haven't read it in years. I know that it only made number 13 in 'The Best Ripper Essays Ever Written'. The first 12 spots were occuppied by my more recent works.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

Schwartz the Liar?

So far as I know, the originator is either Tom Wescott or Mike Richards.

Mike Richards couldn't originate a fart. The hypothesis that the IWEC coaxed Schwartz into lying is pure speculation on my part, based on the following factors.

* Schwartz moved from Berner Street on the day of the murder. The place on Berner Street where broke immigrant Jews could stay for free was the Berner Street club. I suggest he was broke and living in temporary shelter because his wife alone could move their stuff, so I'm assuming he didn't have a large suite of furniture, but only a few belongings.

* There's no question that Wess and company were in defense mode when a murdered gentile woman showed up outside their window. These guys spent their days generating propoganda, so it's not a stretch they would have done so to save their butts, considering they were already on the outs with authorities.

*Assuming Schwartz was an attendee (but not a member) of the club, and perhaps in their debt, and happened by chance not to be at the meetings that night, he would be a sensible person to approach to provide 'evidence' that would draw attention away from a Jew being the murderer.

* Schwartz gave evidence of only two men in the company of Stride - a presumed anti-Semite and a Viking (joke, but you get the point). No Jew but himself in sight.

* I have also suggested that William Wess himself was Schwartz's interpretor to the police, because he went to the same police station (Leman Street) and interpreted for Leon Goldstein, and was probably in the habit of operating in this fashion.

I also pointed out that Abberline and other investigators seem to have later discounted Schwartz as a witness. But altogether, this is logical scenario based on absolutely not a single shred of supporting evidence. If Lynn Cates has thought of points or discovered evidence that I haven't, which wouldn't surprise me, then I'd most grateful to hear them.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

Hello, Lynn.
I'm sure Tom hasn't taken it personally, as “imitation is the clearest form of approbation“.
I haven't heard a word from Chicago pertaining to the translator candidates yet. I'll wait until tomorrow evening (don't feel like pushing too much), then I'll give you Morris' email address. At the worst, for just 4 pages I'm sure he can do it himself, or his aunt will do it, and even regularly.
I'll go cook that duck now. All that talk about blood and body parts made me hungry! (I should really be ashamed of myself, but if I don't eat soon, I'm about to faint.)

[mariab]

To Tom Wescott:
Sorry for the late response, I was on the phone.
So the “box of toys“ postcard is lost. But perhaps we have the transcribed content? (No, you didn't reference it, I picked it up from doing a search on Joseph Aarons on casebook.)
So the "From Hell" letter wasn't written in red ink? But then why is it posted in red here on casebook?!?
For identifying somebody's kidney, I didn't mean from mitochondrial DNA, but from DNA from bloodwork. I'm not sure if they do paternity tests that way too.
Lynn Cates is looking for a connection between Israel Schwartz, William West, and the IWMC. He couldn't find anything from synagogues yet, but possibly I found him a translator for Der Arbeter Fraint. I wish I could help more, but I'm up to the top of my head with research here in Paris right now.

[lynn cates]

for the record

Hello Tom and Maria. I just saw this thread.

Just to set the record straight, I definitely did NOT originate the "Schwartz is a fibber" theory. So far as I know, the originator is either Tom Wescott or Mike Richards. Indeed, if an old chap's memory does not fail him, I think that Gareth Williams started a thread about the "Berner st conspiracy" on behalf of Mike.

Of course, if I see a point of view that is well argued, and fits like a piece in a puzzle (with a proper "snap"), I am more than happy to adopt it.

Cheers.
LC

[Tom_Wescott]

If there's evidence that Joseph Aarons had a history with fake letters and with a fellow associate who changed his handwriting a lot, then I might consider your hypothesis.

I didn't say that. I said Aarons hired Le Grand, who had a history with fake letters, etc.

But how come Lusk didn't get wind of the hoax then?

For a hoax to work, it must have a dupe. There's no question that, regardless of who wrote the letter, Lusk was the dupe.

And what had this all to do with the “box of toys“ postcard?

I don't believe I referenced this letter in my posts, but for the record, the WVC boys and the Evening News reporter thought it from the same hand, and it probably was, but since no facsimile exists, we'll never know.

As far as I'm concerned, the "From Hell" letter (as posted here on casebook) is written in red ink.

Well, it wasn't, but okay.

There would have been NO scientific way possible in the Victorian era to establish if the half kidney in question was from Eddowes.

Yes, but it's like mitochondrial DNA, which can't prove it was you, but it can prove it WASN'T you.

I'm sitting on the fence with Lynn's (or your bastardized) theory about Schwartz's testimony having generated from the IWMC. With persevering research on Schwartz, BS, and Pipeman, this question could get settled one day, hopefully.

It might not be too hard, but nobody has really looked into it. That's not really my forte, but find some records of William Wess' various sweaters and look for Israel Schwartz's name. If you find it, there you go.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

To Tom Wescott:
If there's evidence that Joseph Aarons had a history with fake letters and with a fellow associate who changed his handwriting a lot, then I might consider your hypothesis. But how come Lusk didn't get wind of the hoax then? Or are you going to claim he was involved too? And what had this all to do with the “box of toys“ postcard? (I'm very sorry, but I really have no time to research this further tonight.)
As far as I'm concerned, the "From Hell" letter (as posted here on casebook) is written in red ink.
There would have been NO scientific way possible in the Victorian era to establish if the half kidney in question was from Eddowes. The best they could have done is exhume her, extract her other kidney, and compare the two. Which would be no good, due to decomposition and to the alcohol having altered the Lusk kidney. Today, with DNA, such an identification would be a piece of cake (requiring several weeks for results).
I'm sitting on the fence with Lynn's (or your bastardized) theory about Schwartz's testimony having generated from the IWMC. With persevering research on Schwartz, BS, and Pipeman, this question could get settled one day, hopefully.