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Queen Mary and Lord Mayor

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  • Queen Mary and Lord Mayor

    Hi,

    As you already know I believe that Jack the Ripper planned the murder of Mary Kelly to spoil Lord Mayor´s Day.

    I have also stated that I think he posed the dead body the way he did to confirm to the police that he was the murderer (since he was planning to do extensive mutilations on the victim and knew that the police afterwards could have doubts about who the killer was).

    http://www.npg.org.uk/collections/se...Queen-of-Scots

    I have also told you about a letter I think he wrote in the press, giving the adress to Miller´s Court and the name of the victim: Mary.

    In this letter he hints at Lord Tennyson. Lord Tennyson wrote a play called "Queen Mary". Lord Mayor was in it to.

    http://archive.org/details/cu31924031321478

    The play was performed in London.

    Regards Pierre

  • #2
    Originally posted by Pierre View Post
    I have also told you about a letter I think he wrote in the press, giving the adress to Miller´s Court and the name of the victim: Mary.
    So not Mary Jane Kelly as you told us before. Just Mary?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by David Orsam View Post
      So not Mary Jane Kelly as you told us before. Just Mary?
      He gives the following:

      The name Mary
      Her room number
      Miller´s Court
      The date of the murder

      He also gave the number of the room above Mary´s.

      Do you know the name of Mary´s first cousin?

      Regards Pierre

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Pierre View Post
        He gives the following:

        The name Mary
        Her room number
        Miller´s Court
        The date of the murder
        But this isn't true is it? Because I previously asked you in the other thread if he gave her address in plain English and you said no it was in 'metaphorical language'. Then I asked for clarification and you said it was just your 'interpretation'.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by David Orsam View Post
          But this isn't true is it? Because I previously asked you in the other thread if he gave her address in plain English and you said no it was in 'metaphorical language'. Then I asked for clarification and you said it was just your 'interpretation'.
          David - you are missing the important information here.

          And please reconsider your own hypothesis of a killer writing the actual adress of his next crime to the police.

          I´ll get back to you when you have given that some thought.

          Regards Pierre

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Pierre View Post
            And please reconsider your own hypothesis of a killer writing the actual adress of his next crime to the police.
            I have neither formulated nor offered any such hypothesis.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Pierre View Post
              Do you know the name of Mary´s first cousin?
              Which Mary are you speaking of here? Mary Jane Kelly or Queen of Scots?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Pierre View Post
                And please reconsider your own hypothesis of a killer writing the actual adress of his next crime to the police.
                Just to clarify, that is, or was, your hypothesis:

                "He wrote a letter to the editor in a paper not signing it “Jack the Ripper” where he gave the exact address to one of the murder sites."

                That is from your post dated 18 September 2015 in the 'I think I have found him' thread.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Presumably the latter's cousin. . .

                  Originally posted by David Orsam View Post
                  Which Mary are you speaking of here? Mary Jane Kelly or Queen of Scots?
                  ... Queen Elizabeth I.

                  (This grows more and more interesting...)
                  Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
                  ---------------
                  Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
                  ---------------

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Pierre View Post
                    Hi,

                    As you already know I believe that Jack the Ripper planned the murder of Mary Kelly to spoil Lord Mayor´s Day.

                    I have also stated that I think he posed the dead body the way he did to confirm to the police that he was the murderer (since he was planning to do extensive mutilations on the victim and knew that the police afterwards could have doubts about who the killer was).

                    http://www.npg.org.uk/collections/se...Queen-of-Scots

                    I have also told you about a letter I think he wrote in the press, giving the adress to Miller´s Court and the name of the victim: Mary.

                    In this letter he hints at Lord Tennyson. Lord Tennyson wrote a play called "Queen Mary". Lord Mayor was in it to.

                    http://archive.org/details/cu31924031321478

                    The play was performed in London.

                    Regards Pierre
                    I have started to read it.
                    Aye, 'tis quite dark and deep of history -
                    of false religious pride and zeal that cooked the flames of martyrs,
                    of Cranmer and Ridley and the rest.
                    "Tis "Bloody Mary" at the helm, persecuting her ha'sister, the Bullen woman's child.
                    Wilt she follow mother to the block? Or will false Philip in his power madness seek to protect they young virgin?
                    And what of de la Pole and his shock from perfidious Rome?

                    Yeah it is dark and deep of the 1550s.
                    Too deep for the stage of the 1880s.
                    I note another play of royalty, "The Princess" and thought of Gama, Hilarion and Ida - but another babing poet had to rewrite that tale with tunes from
                    a musical knight. FOR THREE ACTS yet (aye, there be the rub!).

                    And what of promising spring, and the mad-proud noble who ruined ope'ning night by yelling about being a free-thinker, and added one more groan
                    (which lasted over a decade) to a litany 'til he ruined a man who painted glorious Dorian greyish.

                    Tis much to consider here. Now for Browning's "Pippa".

                    Jeff

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      How many historical characters is Pierre going to introduce into this narrative of his? Tennyson's 'Queen Mary' was about Mary I ('Bloody Mary') not Mary Queen of Scots, who was of course cousin to both Elizabeth I and Mary I.

                      I guess this all is leading to Roman Catholicism in the Protestant country of England in the 1880's. What's next, James I and Guy Fawkes?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Rosella View Post
                        How many historical characters is Pierre going to introduce into this narrative of his? Tennyson's 'Queen Mary' was about Mary I ('Bloody Mary') not Mary Queen of Scots, who was of course cousin to both Elizabeth I and Mary I.

                        I guess this all is leading to Roman Catholicism in the Protestant country of England in the 1880's. What's next, James I and Guy Fawkes?
                        Well, now that I got that poesy clowning out of me a bit, I could point this out. The tragedy of Mary, Queen of Scots (leading to her eventual trial and execution at Fotheringay Castle in 1587) starts when Mary I of England dies in 1558. Mary I was the first Catholic monarch of England after the Reformation, and had (as Tennyson's turgid play states) tried to return England to the old faith by force. This led to the fires at Moorefield (I think it was Moorefield) where many Protestants were burned including Archbishop Cranmer and Bishop Ridley. Also it was pushed by Mary's husband & cousin Philip of Spain, who married Mary principally for the purposes of politics against France (which had the then little Princess Mary of Scotland married to the heir to the French throne, Francois). In 1558 Mary I dies of cancer (she had thought she was pregnant by Philip). During the five year reign of Mary her half - sister Elizabeth had been in the Tower of London, and under constant threat of death. She had been carefully advised by William Cecil as to how to avoid this fate, and when she inherits the throne Cecil remains her chief advisor until his death in the 1590s. But for Catholics, Mary of Scotland was the legitimate next in line as she was 1) Catholic, and 2) Elizabeth's legal standing as heir was weakened due to the antics of her father Henry VIII, who had occasionally declared her a bastard - like when her mother was beheaded in 1535.

                        To help out Mary's claim against Elizabeth, in 1559 King Henri II of France was killed in a jousting tournament accident and his son became King Francois II of France. This was coupled to the fact that Mary of Scotland's uncles (on her mother's side) were the Duc of Guise and his brother, who were very powerful at court. Mary's problems were that her young husband's health was poor (he died in 1560), and her mother-in-law, Catherine de Medici, hated her as a potential power rival. When Francois dies, Mary is advised to return to her own kingdom (a really difficult throne in itself, which she will lose within a decade). While active Queen of Scots, Mary will start considering her relationship to the Catholics in England as their chosen "real" queen.

                        So there is a real link here between that picture and Tennyson's stage verse drama (poor man, he was a great poet, and did turn out Victorian England's greatest verse novel, "The Idylls of the King", but none of his plays were successful, except when William Gilbert took his "The Princess" and made "Princess Ida" with Sir Arthur Sullivan - and that operetta is too long and not revived frequently like "Pinafore" or "The Mikado").

                        As for "Guy Fawks" - well the November holiday that passed only nine days back is connected to a British murder, but from 1930. The notorious "burning car" murder of the unknown man by Alfred Rouse was planned for November 5, 1930 because Rouse thought that the appearance of his burning car would be mistaken as another bonfire set on that day (when figures of Fawks are thrown down on bonfires). Given the anti-Catholicism endemic in that holiday I don't know how popular it really is anymore, unless they now switch it's meaning as an assault on would-be terrorists trying to overthrow the government.

                        Jeff
                        Last edited by Mayerling; 11-14-2015, 09:41 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Error

                          It was Smithfield where the Protestants were burned, not Moorefield.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The whole history of the Tudor period is of tremendous interest, Mayerling. Of course it is, and I would also like to discuss various aspects of the intriguing 'burning car' case here on the forum in the future.

                            However, all these convoluted clues and references Pierre keeps posting will tie us all in knots before we're finished. Mary Queen of Scots' portrait, Queen Mary, the play by Tennyson, the Lord Mayor of London etc are just teasers.

                            If the motive is all about religious controversy in the late Victorian period, especially the position of Roman Catholics in England at the time, and his suspect is connected with that, why not just be open about it and say so?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Motive

                              Sorry, but I can't think that there was any other motive for slaughtering these poor women than that a seriously disturbed killer enjoyed doing it. To imply that there was a political or social reason for doing this makes a mockery of the deaths of these women. What would we say when looking at the bodies of Mary and Kate? There was a valid reason for doing this? This is putting them in the same category as the killer did; it didn't matter because they were worthless.

                              George Bernard Shaw was being ironic, if anyone missed that.

                              Best wishes
                              C4

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