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Artizan Dwellings writing photograph

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  • TizerisT
    replied
    It begs the question also: Could police have missed a chalk message in Millers Court? In the long stretch of time between Kellys murder and being found, did someone, ie a landlord or whatever, see some messy chalk writing in the archway and remove it? It would only take saliva and a rag, and a few seconds.
    Furthermore, could Tabrams death scene have had chalk writing that was missed?

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  • TizerisT
    replied
    Thanks Rob.

    Batman, the message "I am going to do one on the 27th [of October]" can only refer to a future victim surely?

    I am personally leaning towards chalk writing, next to victims, being a signature of JtR. One that has over time been clouded by misinformation and lack of surviving knowledge about them, the Eddowes one being virtually unknown for 100+ years. Chapmans scene had chalk writing too apparently. And in Chapman's case, the number of claimed victims by the writer is a greater number than known in canon, even if you add Tabram. It would have been rather odd for a trickster to have claimed, in chalk, that a high number of victims would be found in the future when Chapman was only no.2. Jack wouldn't even have attained serial-killer status at that point. So who could really have known that the number was to get higher at this early stage? Most likely the killer I would say.

    From dissertations page:
    One of the earliest reports of chalked wall writing occurs not long after the murder of Annie Chapman, who was found in the back yard of 29 Hanbury Street. Hours after her murder The Echo, Saturday 8 September 1888 reported:

    THE “WRITING ON THE WALL”

    It is currently reported in Hanbury-street that this morning the following paragraph, written in chalk, was seen upon the wall of one of the back gardens there, and four persons distinctly stated they had actually seen the writing. The words are, “I have now done three, and intend to do nine more and give myself up, and at the same time give my reasons for doing the murders.” Whether there is any truth in the matter remains to be seen.


    Notice the "Whether there is any truth in the matter remains to be seen" at the end. It's a cautious article, not a hyped one intended to sell papers like so many ended up being. A cautious article which claims four locals distinctly stated they had seen it.

    To me, the article does not smell of BS at all, pardon my French.
    Last edited by TizerisT; 02-06-2015, 10:50 AM.

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  • Rob Clack
    replied
    Originally posted by TizerisT View Post
    ^ ^ Any particular part where you think the '27th' message might have been written?
    Window shutters or door.

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  • Batman
    replied
    Very nice finds. I take it though its highly unlikely the killer wrote this as it is signed Jack. The only things 27 are Hanbury St., and the Dear Boss letter signed Jack the Ripper was received on the 27th. Which might explain the choice of 27.

    The contemporary view of the GSG is that the murderer of Eddowes wrote it. See Swanson's report and the investigation notes at the time. It was fresh. Would have been rubbed away by those living there. They actually noted these factors. They interviewed people living there. No one living there could account for it or explain it any other way. It might be a modern view to reject it because Jewish suspects don't quite fit the 'casting suspicion on the Jews via graffiti' profile. Oh yeah and Jews writing in Double Cockney too at that...

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  • TizerisT
    replied
    ^ ^ Any particular part where you think the '27th' message might have been written?

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  • Rob Clack
    replied
    Sorry I thought we were talking about the Goulston Street Grafito.

    Rob

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  • Azarna
    replied
    I agree, it does look like tongue and groove panelling.

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  • TizerisT
    replied
    Looks much more like wooden panelling to me than black brick.

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  • Rob Clack
    replied
    Originally posted by TizerisT View Post
    Hi Rob, if you've seen the layout of the building, is there any particular part of it where you think it was most likey to be written?
    To me it looks as if it could have been written on a black door from the pic, a door that maybe has a 'cross' design to it, if you know what type I mean.
    Hi,

    The most likely spot in my opinion is the entrance. Not inside the passage as that was all whitewashed. I don't think it was on the door and (can't remember the reference off hand) was written on black brick which was only at the entrance.

    Rob

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  • TizerisT
    replied
    Originally posted by Rob Clack View Post
    That's rubbish the police believed it relevant to the investigation and that's good enough for me. I've studied the location, the layout of the building and am satisfied that jack wrote it. Now I can't prove it and until we find out who wrote it nobody can disprove he wrote it.

    Wooly thinking? Not really.

    Rob
    Hi Rob, if you've seen the layout of the building, is there any particular part of it where you think it was most likey to be written?
    To me it looks as if it could have been written on a black door from the pic, a door that maybe has a 'cross' design to it, if you know what type I mean.

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  • sleekviper
    replied
    Timing. Just me of course, but in order to have this photo without anyone having written about it, it seems that it was either really early, or really late. Late, it just becomes commonplace for these type writings, so why worry about this one? Early, as in the 28th of September, there is a massive problem. The only people that know the name "Jack", are the police, Central News, and author of "Dear Boss", where he also has said not to put anything out until he kills again. So if this shows up the 28th, the only ones that it will mean something to are the police; so finding it, calling for a picture to be taken of it, is no worries. No one knows of any "Jack", only problem is to make sure no one touches it. So from the time that this could be found on the 28th, the police would be casually poking around for a victim. He states that he killed on the 27th, this is found on the 28th, man power is adjusted to snooping for a dead body more than keeping an eye for a killer. Oh dear, I have an idea where it was put if that is the case.

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  • Phil Carter
    replied
    Originally posted by Monty View Post
    Hi all,

    Whilst I'm aware that the Goulston St writing will naturally appear on this thread I do request that it isn't debated on this thread.

    God knows there are enough threads on that topic for you to debate it, I do not wish this one to become yet another.

    So I plea that we keep on topic.

    Monty
    Hello Monty,

    Ok. The photographed example of chalk writing. You pose the question, a valid one imho,as to why this writing was photographed.

    The date of the writing is important of course, and lends argument towards "why". Also the time of the episode in conjunction with the "flow" of the situation itself. (i.e. the popular "feelings" of the populace and the response of the authorities.)

    Also, attention. Attention that it SHOULD be photographed. Is it possible that what we have here is another example of the press calling attention to the writing and involving the police? Doubtful, imho, as we would have every hack in the East End writing about it.. so a press "plant" is doubtful in this instance, methinks. So back to the word, attention...the attention is an onus now placed on the authorities for the decision to photograph it. Attention because they believed it important, for some reason we know not of,entirely. Is it important because of the timing, the location or perhaps the handwriting?

    Now one can ask.. if this is something to do with the writing itself.. as in the style, or composition,is it the style as in "handwriting"?...

    However, it may well be a long leap to compare to suspects and their handwriting. Trying for example, to compare it with Sickert's handwriting would be rather silly, as we already know,with some debatable knowledge, that Sickert may have involved himself in certain letter writing to the police. The letters he wrote..IF he wrote them.. were they IN his own handwriting, or a composed writing style for the sake of disguise?

    If the latter be the case, ipso facto, Sickert's writing cannot be compared to the writing in this photograph because it would be extremely unlikely he would write in chalk in the same manner he would with a pen and ink.. and also, the point of disguising his writing would again have to be considered with this wall writing.

    And that's just Sickert.

    When you refer or hint to or at a contemporary suspect and his writing for comparison, which particular suspect have you in mind, may I ask?.. or is this a more recent suspect,like Sickert?

    Why indeed was this writing photographed. It is a shame that there is no document pertaining to the writing that could or would shed a little light.



    best wishes

    Phil

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  • Monty
    replied
    Please note

    Hi all,

    Whilst I'm aware that the Goulston St writing will naturally appear on this thread I do request that it isn't debated on this thread.

    God knows there are enough threads on that topic for you to debate it, I do not wish this one to become yet another.

    So I plea that we keep on topic.

    Monty

    Leave a comment:


  • Barnaby
    replied
    Originally posted by Phil H View Post
    Rob - the onus is on those who want to use the GSG in the case to demonstrate its relevance. Until then it remains nothing but an extraneous - perhaps interesting - irrelevance.

    Not usual for you to engage in wooly thinking - but I'm afraid in this case I'm impressed by your response to my post.

    Phil H
    Rob here isn't necessarily advocating that the GSG is relevant to the murders. He, and I venture to guess most of us, simply want more information. What we make of it depends on its nature along with already known facts.

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  • Supe
    replied
    Debs,

    I do apologize for being the bearer of bad news, but that is a report I got on the York Conference. It is frightening, though, isn't it?

    Don.

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