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I'm not a butcher, I'm not a Yid......

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  • Spider
    started a topic I'm not a butcher, I'm not a Yid......

    I'm not a butcher, I'm not a Yid......

    I am aware as are most on here that the following was quoted by Sir Melville Macnaghton in his memoirs, it being one of the first communications he read concerning the Ripper;


    "I'm not a butcher
    I'm not a Yid
    Nor yet a foreign skipper
    But I'm your own light-hearted friend
    Yours truly
    Jack the Ripper"


    However I'd be interested to know the source for the 'apparent' preceding two verses that appear as follows;

    "Up and down the goddamn town
    policemen try to find me
    But I ain't a chap yet to drown
    In drink or Thames or sea.

    I've no time to tell you how
    I came to be a killer
    But you should know, as time will show
    That I'm society's pillar


    Ay information welcome as I'm unable to find any pointers ;-)

  • Robert
    replied
    Look at the mention of drowning in this poem, and the rhythm of the last two lines :
    https://genius.com/W-h-auden-james-honeyman-annotated

    Leave a comment:


  • Iconoclast
    replied
    Originally posted by Spider View Post

    Quite right Sam, I've found them in McCormick's book The Identity of Jack the Ripper.
    He qualifies the final verse as being attributed to McNaughten's memoirs, however there is no reference to the source of the two other verses unfortunately ;-(
    Hi Spider,

    I think I'd be right in saying that the likely source of McCormick's two additional verses would have been the notes made by Dr. Thomas Dutton. All of this stuff is now denigrated by Ripperologists so we might best leave it there.

    Except for one thing! If McCormick made up the two additional verses, for what purpose did he do so? Having already in his possession the more famous verse quoted by McNaughton, what purpose did making up the two extra verses serve?

    Beats me!

    Cheers,

    Ike

    Leave a comment:


  • Phil Carter
    replied
    Hello Simon,

    No doubt someone will one day think these lyrics, written 80 years after the murders, sung by Mannfred Mann, will also have "originally" been based on the WM 1888... Like McCormick stuff.

    (Its not, it's about a run down hostel in San Francisco).


    My name is Jack, and I live in the back,
    Of the Greta Garbo home
    With friends I will remember, wherever I may roam

    My name is Jack, I live in the back
    Of the Greta Garbo home for wayward boys and girls

    Now here's ol' Fred with his hands on his head
    'Cause he thinks he's heard the bomb
    And here comes Super Spade
    Who really gets it on

    And my name's Jack, I live in the back
    Of the Greta Garbo home for wayward boys and girls

    There is Dave with the plates he made
    For the food that Diggers found
    Ruth is always praying, and never makes a sound
    It's lots of fun and I love to run
    Up and down the stairs
    I make as much noise as I want, and no one even cares!

    And my name's Jack, we live in the back
    Of the Greta Garbo home for wayward boys and girls

    There's Carl over there with his funny hair
    He's never sad at all
    And when I grow up I want to run as fast as my friend Paul
    There's the prettiest girl in the whole wide world
    And her name is Melody Mend
    And here comes Mom with brother Tom
    Who's probably my best friend

    And my name's Jack, I live in the back
    Of the Greta Garbo home for wayward boys and girls
    (We all know Jack, we live in the back
    Of the Greta Garbo home for wayward boys and girls)


    Best regards


    Phil

    Leave a comment:


  • Simon Wood
    replied
    Donald McCormick was a peddler of dubious facts.

    In his biography of Ian Fleming, he wrote that John Dee, astrologer, occult philosopher and advisor to Queen Elizabeth I, used to sign himself 007.

    It's complete nonsense, but people liked the idea, and popular ideas pass into common acceptance.

    Leave a comment:


  • Abby Normal
    replied
    Originally posted by Bridewell View Post
    "Up and down the goddamn town
    policemen try to find me
    But I ain't a chap yet to drown
    In drink or Thames or sea.


    I've no time to tell you how
    I came to be a killer
    But you should know, as time will show
    That I'm society's pillar"


    More indicative of Druitt (a contemporary suspect) than of Maybrick IMHO.
    interesting its indicative of Druitt, MMs favored suspect and this is from him.

    Leave a comment:


  • Michael W Richards
    replied
    Originally posted by Spider View Post
    I am aware as are most on here that the following was quoted by Sir Melville Macnaghton in his memoirs, it being one of the first communications he read concerning the Ripper;


    "I'm not a butcher
    I'm not a Yid
    Nor yet a foreign skipper
    But I'm your own light-hearted friend
    Yours truly
    Jack the Ripper"


    However I'd be interested to know the source for the 'apparent' preceding two verses that appear as follows;

    "Up and down the goddamn town
    policemen try to find me
    But I ain't a chap yet to drown
    In drink or Thames or sea.

    I've no time to tell you how
    I came to be a killer
    But you should know, as time will show
    That I'm society's pillar


    Ay information welcome as I'm unable to find any pointers ;-)
    These verses refer to most theories that were in circulation at the time or shortly thereafter, ..Jewish, butcher, seaman, doctor/barrister..the seaman idea being voiced by no less than HRH.

    Since Druitt is referred to, and we know that theory is first created when he is finally found, all that is in those lines are previously published ideas. If he had added an occupation that was not being openly suggested, then we might have cause to look closer.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bridewell
    replied
    Originally posted by Iconoclast View Post
    James Maybrick’s family motto (purchased by him out of typical Victorian middle class vanity) reads tempus omnia revelat (‘time reveals all’, or more cryptically, ‘as time will show').

    And pillars are made out of a number of materials, one of which is, of course, brick.

    James Maybrick was ‘society’s pillar’, but not in the more familiar sense of doctor, clergyman, prime minister, etc.. The cryptic criminal struck again, and it has taken 130 years to decipher the clues.

    As I say, I look forward to the day someone publishes more on these critical insights into the criminal mind which was Jack the Spratt McVitie.
    "Up and down the goddamn town
    policemen try to find me
    But I ain't a chap yet to drown
    In drink or Thames or sea.


    I've no time to tell you how
    I came to be a killer
    But you should know, as time will show
    That I'm society's pillar"


    More indicative of Druitt (a contemporary suspect) than of Maybrick IMHO.

    Leave a comment:


  • Iconoclast
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
    Haven't seen such a tenuous link in a while, Ike. Bravo.
    You're welcome Sam.

    Quite dizzy over here so far away from my natural habitat ...

    Ike

    Leave a comment:


  • Robert
    replied
    A lamp-lighter?

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam Flynn
    replied
    Originally posted by Iconoclast View Post
    And pillars are made out of a number of materials, one of which is, of course, brick.
    Haven't seen such a tenuous link in a while, Ike. Bravo.

    Leave a comment:


  • Iconoclast
    replied
    Originally posted by Spider View Post
    Quite right Sam, I've found them in McCormick's book The Identity of Jack the Ripper.
    He qualifies the final verse as being attributed to McNaughten's memoirs, however there is no reference to the source of the two other verses unfortunately ;-(
    Hi Spider,

    I look forward to the day when someone publishes more on this material. In the meantime, it's worth the adding that the order of the verses were as literally reported in McCormick (paperback, pp100-101) and as suggested by your original post, albeit you add a caveat which re-jigs the order:

    "I'm not a butcher
    I'm not a Yid
    Nor yet a foreign skipper
    But I'm your own light-hearted friend
    Yours truly
    Jack the Ripper"

    However I'd be interested to know the source for the 'apparent' preceding two verses that appear as follows;

    "Up and down the goddamn town
    policemen try to find me
    But I ain't a chap yet to drown
    In drink or Thames or sea.

    I've no time to tell you how
    I came to be a killer
    But you should know, as time will show
    That I'm society's pillar"
    It would appear that we are to believe that the verses were written in the order above. This is evident from McCormick's comment (p101), "The last verse is perhaps the most enigmatic of all Jack's ventures in rhyming ..." (he is referring to the 'society's pillar verse). So, the ditty reads as you have it above (or - at very least -the last verse is not the Jack the Ripper one). I would suggest that - if there is any debate about whether the three verses connect in terms of scanning and style - it is perfectly plausible that Jack wrote the first verse to mirror that which he wrote shortly after Annie Chapman's murder on September 8; and that his subsequent two verses were added later, thereby changing the context of the author’s mood when he (or she) wrote them.

    By the way, I spotted your original post via Google when seeking the full three verses as I have decided to add them as an epigram in my brilliant History v. Maybrick original text. As you may recall from my other posts on t’other thread, I believe that the final verse reported by McCormick (but excluded by Macnaghten) is a powerful clue to the author of the verses and – by implication – the author of the very crimes themselves:

    I've no time to tell you how
    I came to be a killer
    But you should know, as time will show
    That I'm society's pillar


    James Maybrick’s family motto (purchased by him out of typical Victorian middle class vanity) reads tempus omnia revelat (‘time reveals all’, or more cryptically, ‘as time will show').

    And pillars are made out of a number of materials, one of which is, of course, brick.

    James Maybrick was ‘society’s pillar’, but not in the more familiar sense of doctor, clergyman, prime minister, etc.. The cryptic criminal struck again, and it has taken 130 years to decipher the clues.

    As I say, I look forward to the day someone publishes more on these critical insights into the criminal mind which was Jack the Spratt McVitie.
    Last edited by Iconoclast; 06-03-2018, 03:54 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Spider
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
    Those verses were probably made up by Donald McCormick in the late 1950s. I believe that doggerel first appears in his book The Identity of Jack the Ripper.
    Quite right Sam, I've found them in McCormick's book The Identity of Jack the Ripper.
    He qualifies the final verse as being attributed to McNaughten's memoirs, however there is no reference to the source of the two other verses unfortunately ;-(

    Leave a comment:


  • Robert
    replied
    Hi Jeff

    Yes, it's a good one.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mayerling
    replied
    Originally posted by Robert View Post
    Jeff, when I was about 11, I read Beerbohm's story 'A.V. Laider.' I spent the next couple of years scrutinising my palm and imagining I was doomed.
    Robert, if you haven't read it check out Oscar Wilde's story, "Lord Arthur Savile's Crime". It too deals with palm reading.

    Jeff

    Leave a comment:

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