Analysis of the Rippers MO

[GBinOz]

yes
casebook victims section on McKenzie:

• Cause of death from severance of the left carotid artery.
• Two stabs in the left side of the neck 'carried forward in the same skin wound.'
• Some bruising on chest.
• Five bruises or marks on left side of abdomen.
• Cut was made from left to right, apparently while McKenzie was on the ground.
• A long (seven-inch) 'but not unduly deep' wound from the bottom of the left breast to the navel.
• Seven or eight scratches beginning at the navel and pointing toward the genitalia.
• Small cut across the mons veneris.

Hi Abby,

The inquest report was from the Times rather than the Telegraph. I have searched other news reports and there is nowhere mentioned the boldened cuts shown above. Unfortunately the casebook victims section on McKenzie doesn't give a reference for that information. Curious.

Cheers, George

[Abby Normal]

Hi Abby,

The Telegraph account of the Phillip's testimony at the inquest doesn't mention "vertical gash to midsection" or "cut to the privates". Is there another source that refers to these injuries? I agree that the hiked up skirt is an indication. Perhaps I should have phrased my comment as, if McKenzie was a JtR victim he was varying his M.O./ Signature.

Cheers, George

yes
casebook victims section on McKenzie:

• Cause of death from severance of the left carotid artery.
• Two stabs in the left side of the neck 'carried forward in the same skin wound.'
• Some bruising on chest.
• Five bruises or marks on left side of abdomen.
• Cut was made from left to right, apparently while McKenzie was on the ground.
• A long (seven-inch) 'but not unduly deep' wound from the bottom of the left breast to the navel.
• Seven or eight scratches beginning at the navel and pointing toward the genitalia.
• Small cut across the mons veneris.

[Aethelwulf]

Skirt hiked up to expose midsection (MO) This is a bigee for me and final straw IMHO that she was a ripper victim.

I've seen this before and just don't see why it is such a bigee. This, as with the other factors with Mackenzie, are so general that anyone could have done it. I mean, if someone wanted to get at her midsection/privates then they's have to pull her skirts up. I don't buy the fingernails stuff. None of it adds up and sounds like trying to make a case where there isn't one. Jtr doesn't attack for months, then comes back scratching and with other differences, and then goes where? Sick, asylum, lost mind, whilst could be true smack of an easy way out/trying to find a convenient explanation.

[Fiver]

It was Dr. Phillip's opinion after he examined, and re-examined, the body. See the account of the inquest testimony.
https://www.casebook.org/official_do...mackenzie.html

Thank you. I had read that before, but missed the scratches.

[GBinOz]

Is there anything that shows the scratches in the McKenzie case were fingernail scratches or is that just the other poster's opinion?

It was Dr. Phillip's opinion after he examined, and re-examined, the body. See the account of the inquest testimony.

https://www.casebook.org/official_documents/inquests/inquest_mackenzie.html

[GBinOz]

Hi George
I disagree strongly that the "MO compared to the other victims is contradictory." and also that the sig is different. similarities:

death by severance of the left carotid artery (MO, possibly sig)
vertical gash to midsection (IMHO the main or first step of the sig of all the ripper murders)
cut to the privates (sig again)
bruising on the body (MO)
killed while lying down (MO)
victimology (MO)
location and time(MO)
Skirt hiked up to expose midsection (MO) This is a bigee for me and final straw IMHO that she was a ripper victim.

The fingernail scratches, while superficial, target the midsection/privates, and Harry Ds post about Sutcliff, another post mortem mutilator is intriguing. I concede though that this is different than the rest, but not contradictory. The lack of organ removal is different too, but could be attributed to a number of circs, including interruption.

On the whole Mckenzie is consistent in both MO and sig to the rest of the ripper victims, just not in extent, and IMHO was probably a ripper victim. I think difference was due to the ripper being inebriated, sick, didnt have a sharp knife and or interrupted.

Hi Abby,

The Telegraph account of the Phillip's testimony at the inquest doesn't mention "vertical gash to midsection" or "cut to the privates". Is there another source that refers to these injuries? I agree that the hiked up skirt is an indication. Perhaps I should have phrased my comment as, if McKenzie was a JtR victim he was varying his M.O./ Signature.

Cheers, George

[Fleetwood Mac]

Point taken, but Sadler was cleared.

I'd agree with you in that it probably wasn't him.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

From memory, the body of Francis Coles was found in the darkest spot on a path underneath a railway arch. That doesn't appear to be a drunken man who has had his nose put out of joint hunting down someone in an act of revenge. There's a reason why her body was found in the darkest spot, more than likely chosen in a calculated manner as opposed to in a drunken rage.

Point taken, but Sadler was cleared.

[Fleetwood Mac]

I haven't looked at that case for a while, but my recollection is that a man seen with Coles shortly before she was murdered looked nothing like Sadler.

From memory, the body of Francis Coles was found in the darkest spot on a path underneath a railway arch. That doesn't appear to be a drunken man who has had his nose put out of joint hunting down someone in an act of revenge. There's a reason why her body was found in the darkest spot, more than likely chosen in a calculated manner as opposed to in a drunken rage.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

agree.I think sadler probably killed her. he was a hot mess that night. He was charged and many of the police thought he did it. and too many differences to the rest- no evidence of strangulation, no abdominal wounds and a tad too far out in time.

I haven't looked at that case for a while, but my recollection is that a man seen with Coles shortly before she was murdered looked nothing like Sadler.

[Abby Normal]

Hi George,

I have no problems with your position regarding the 3 victims you mention. In fact, I know of a case of one serial killer who applied 2 (or even 3) distinctly different MO's for different types of victims, so changes in MO do occur sometimes. His name is Cedric Maake, who, in the Wemmer Pan area of Johannesburg, killed men and women walking alone, whom he bludgeoned to death with rocks. But in that same area he attacked couples in cars, shooting the men and raping the women. And then he also killed tailors in the inner city area, attacking them in their shops with hammers.

As to the MO used in the Coles case, I still think she probably wasn't a Ripper victim.

All the best,
Frank

agree.I think sadler probably killed her. he was a hot mess that night. He was charged and many of the police thought he did it. and too many differences to the rest- no evidence of strangulation, no abdominal wounds and a tad too far out in time.

[Fiver]

So Alice McKenzie may well have been killed nine months after Mary Kelly; the knife may well have been different from that which was utilized on the earlier victims; her injuries may well have been less severe than those inflicted hitherto. But once viewed in context of the Sutcliffe example, none of these factors are in themselves sufficient to render McKenzie a non-Ripper victim. And the coincidence of the abdominal fingernail scratches is intriguing, to say the least."[/I]

Is there anything that shows the scratches in the McKenzie case were fingernail scratches or is that just the other poster's opinion?

[Abby Normal]

Hi Jeff,

The Alice McKenzie murder is of particular interest as it's candidacy would eliminate a number of suspects. However, the M.O. compared to other victims is contradictory. Phillip's evidence at the autopsy indicates a return to the double cut to the throat, although they might more accurately be described as extended stab wounds rather than slicing cuts:
The wound in the neck was 4 in. long, reaching from the back part of the muscles, which were almost entirely divided. It reached to the fore part of the neck to a point 4 in. below the chin. There was a second incision, which must have commenced from behind and immediately below the first. The cause of death was syncope, arising from the loss of blood through the divided carotid vessels, and such death probably was almost instantaneous.

However, the marks on the abdomen were attributed by Phillips to five fingernail scratches rather than cuts from a knife:
There were five marks on the abdomen, and, with the exception of one, were on the left side of the abdomen. The largest one was the lowest, and the smallest one was the exceptional one mentioned, and was typical of a finger-nail mark. They were coloured, and in my opinion were caused by the finger-nails and thumb nail of a hand. I have on a subsequent examination assured myself of the correctness of this conclusion.
[Coroner] Are the injuries to the abdomen similar to those you have seen in the other cases? - No, Sir. I may volunteer the statement that the injuries to the throat are not similar to those in the other cases.
[Coroner] Were the finger-nail marks on the body those of the woman herself? - My impression is that they were caused by another hand. These marks were caused after the throat was cut.

Scratching rather than cutting indicates to me a different signature involved in the McKenzie attack. If Stride is to be given consideration as a JtR victim that was subject to interruption, then surely Coles must also be included under that category.

Best regards, George

Hi George
I disagree strongly that the "MO compared to the other victims is contradictory." and also that the sig is different. similarities:

death by severance of the left carotid artery (MO, possibly sig)
vertical gash to midsection (IMHO the main or first step of the sig of all the ripper murders)
cut to the privates (sig again)
bruising on the body (MO)
killed while lying down (MO)
victimology (MO)
location and time(MO)
Skirt hiked up to expose midsection (MO) This is a bigee for me and final straw IMHO that she was a ripper victim.

The fingernail scratches, while superficial, target the midsection/privates, and Harry Ds post about Sutcliff, another post mortem mutilator is intriguing. I concede though that this is different than the rest, but not contradictory. The lack of organ removal is different too, but could be attributed to a number of circs, including interruption.

On the whole Mckenzie is consistent in both MO and sig to the rest of the ripper victims, just not in extent, and IMHO was probably a ripper victim. I think difference was due to the ripper being inebriated, sick, didnt have a sharp knife and or interrupted.

[FrankO]

Always a pleasure to hear from you. There are differences but, the article shared by Harry D shows that changes in M.O. are not too unusual. Also, Phillips thought that there was a "very great dissimilarity" between the neck wounds inflicted on Chapman and Stride. I am maintaining my sitting position on the fence in both those cases, and on McKenzie.

Hi George,

I have no problems with your position regarding the 3 victims you mention. In fact, I know of a case of one serial killer who applied 2 (or even 3) distinctly different MO's for different types of victims, so changes in MO do occur sometimes. His name is Cedric Maake, who, in the Wemmer Pan area of Johannesburg, killed men and women walking alone, whom he bludgeoned to death with rocks. But in that same area he attacked couples in cars, shooting the men and raping the women. And then he also killed tailors in the inner city area, attacking them in their shops with hammers.

As to the MO used in the Coles case, I still think she probably wasn't a Ripper victim.

All the best,
Frank

[GBinOz]

Hi George,

Good post. The only thing I don't agree much with is your last remark. While Stride is mainly included because of the timing, we, obviously, can't say this about Coles. Furthermore, the MO in her case deviates from that of the 1888 murders in that (Dr. Phillips believed) she was thrown to the ground and then had her throat cut in a sort of sawing manner with a knife that wasn't very sharp.

All the best,
Frank

Hi Frank,

Always a pleasure to hear from you. There are differences but, the article shared by Harry D shows that changes in M.O. are not too unusual. Also, Phillips thought that there was a "very great dissimilarity" between the neck wounds inflicted on Chapman and Stride. I am maintaining my sitting position on the fence in both those cases, and on McKenzie.

Best regards, George