Serious issue regarding Business Records from 19th Century

[Joshua Rogan]

Mmm, maybe. The building opposite the school was Schneider's Cap Factory in 1888. And later maps show the factory occupying the same space as the map you found, so I suspect your map is a little later than 1888, as the 1890 map shows nothing there. Can't be sure though.

1899 Goad shows that building as all cap factory and warehouse;

http://britishlibrary.georeferencer.com/map/ba64kRu39JB02GuM6IwHP7/201312151340-OvWkZl/visualize

[Elamarna]

Hi Joshua,

I also have Geoff Coopers Jack the Ripper map book in download form and it claims to be from 1888 and shows the same as the map on this site.
I guess it is just possible that the Goad for 1890 is wrong? unlikely I accept.
What ever the answer it is an interesting anomaly.

Has you say Goad 90 shows nothing there? maybe there was something in 1888, no way of knowing for sure I assume.

This is what I love about this, doing a little digging reveals something new every time, and it does not have to be suspect related as such.

I think we can be safe and say that the big Kearly and Tonge warehouse was built in the 90's.
equally we cannot discount that they may have had a small presence in 1888, the vacant warehouse in 1890 is certainly a possibility.

A good days work i think.

Steve


this is something i enjoy, looking at things for the pure enjoyment of it.

[Joshua Rogan]

Pretty much sums it up, Steve. Although the Goad '90 map shows a blank space, it does actually say 'see enlarged below', but I can't find any enlargement. Can you?

I'm not sure this is everyone's idea of fun, but at least the two of us have had a good afternoon :-)

[Elamarna]

I can' find the enlargement either.
Could be an internal of the factory, given it is an insurance amp, and comparing it to the 1899.


I suppose one option is that there was something there in 88, demolished before the 1890 and rebuilt on the same floor plan.

I have certainly enjoyed it, better than all the source criticism stuff; but of course that is what we have been doing.

steve

[Mayerling]

Hi all

just re read the old threads on these warehouses,

And it was suggested by AP Wolf that there was also a link to 29 Hanbury street, with the manufacture of packing cases , he was proposing Cutbush of course who had worked in the tea trade in a minor role.


Wonder if anyone else had links to Kearly and Tonge in particular, might be an area worth investigating.

steve

Gee Steve, I could think of one. In 1894 Macnaghten wrote that memorandum listing his three suspects (Druitt, Osrog, and Kosminski) for being the Ripper, but it was to protect Thomas Cutbush - who had relatives connected to Scotland Yard, and was currently under suspicion in the press due to his fetish-like attacks on women. If Cutbush worked at that packing case place that sold it's crates to Kearly and Tonge for their tea, could it possibly also be linked to Macnaghten having a family in India who owned a tea plantation?

Worth thinking about a little. But MM doesn't strike me as a really good suspect. I wonder who would think of him that way.

Jeff

[Kattrup]

I'm not sure this is everyone's idea of fun, but at least the two of us have had a good afternoon :-)

I think it's fun!

Thanks for pursuing this idea.

[Rosella]

According to the Ripper A-Z Cutbush was, just before the Ripper murders, working as a clerk and traveller for a tea merchants situated near the Minories. (A street and parish very near the Tower of London.) He would later travel around the East End on behalf of the Directory.

The Sun newspaper later claimed that Cutbush was working at the Minories firm in late July 1888 when he apparently took exception to some joking remark that was made to him by an elderly member of the firm. Cutbush threw him downstairs, and his victim was unconscious for several weeks. Then the truth came out when the man recovered and Cutbush was fired.

[Mayerling]

According to the Ripper A-Z Cutbush was, just before the Ripper murders, working as a clerk and traveller for a tea merchants situated near the Minories. (A street and parish very near the Tower of London.) He would later travel around the East End on behalf of the Directory.

The Sun newspaper later claimed that Cutbush was working at the Minories firm in late July 1888 when he apparently took exception to some joking remark that was made to him by an elderly member of the firm. Cutbush threw him downstairs, and his victim was unconscious for several weeks. Then the truth came out when the man recovered and Cutbush was fired.

Gee this was the first time I was aware that Cutbush was capable of violence against either sex (here a male). Also, this was more violent (in a sense - as it required more action on his part to throw the man downstairs) than in the poking of the ladies a few years later (although one wonders about that - Cutbush obviously timed his assault on the man at a point where nobody was watching, as he hoped not to be caught doing it - similarly his "pokings" might have been all he could quickly get away with as he was not alone with his female victims long enough to do anything more than poke them).

Jeff

[Elamarna]

Gee this was the first time I was aware that Cutbush was capable of violence against either sex (here a male). Also, this was more violent (in a sense - as it required more action on his part to throw the man downstairs) than in the poking of the ladies a few years later (although one wonders about that - Cutbush obviously timed his assault on the man at a point where nobody was watching, as he hoped not to be caught doing it - similarly his "pokings" might have been all he could quickly get away with as he was not alone with his female victims long enough to do anything more than poke them).

Jeff

Jeff

Cutbush is a much stronger suspect than most think. (ok as I said yesterday no one is actually a strong suspect, just stronger than others, he is in my top ten and has been for many years, but always the lower end)

The SUN certain believed he was the man,
looking at records from 91, it is obvious he was considered a valid suspect by some.
And of course Macnaghten wrote the memoranda to, one assumes, to give a brief for some unknown person to use if need be.
That of course does not make him JtrR or anything like it.


steve