Ethical question - Misogyny on these boards

[Sasha]

Hi Sasha,

I realise you were using an extreme example to make your point: it's okay that JTR killed the women he did because "they were just whores". But happily, in the ten years (almost) that I have been reading these message boards I don't think I've seen anyone expressing anything like this view, even in unwarranted jest.
Love,

Caz
X

Thanks Caz, you are correct. One of the attractions of this board - for me - is that people genuinely seem to care that these women were killed at all (ie I don't think that it's the morbid side of the killings that attracts most punters). And, even if the killer is now dead, there is no statute of limitations on murder. These women mattered. They still matter!

[caz]

Jack - the biggest bigot in the world?

Hi Sasha,

I realise you were using an extreme example to make your point: it's okay that JTR killed the women he did because "they were just whores". But happily, in the ten years (almost) that I have been reading these message boards I don't think I've seen anyone expressing anything like this view, even in unwarranted jest. The nearest would be the recent eye-popping statement that females who choose to enter the armed services deserve no sympathy if they get raped. And the originator of this highly offensive opinion was a woman!

Hi Sox,

I would imagine that a budding serial killer is more likely to be found among the members of society who want the stigma to remain firmly attached to certain minority groups, including the one he finally selects to prey on. Sutcliffe, for example, managed to convince himself that virtually any female who went out unaccompanied deserved no sympathy if she got a hammer over the head. They were all "whores" to him. This was no doubt how he justified his behaviour to himself, but he was seriously deluded if he thought it would work on the world at large.

Love,

Caz
X

[Sasha]

Context is important, and, as Ally pointed out, intent is important.

Hard to judge intent in the written word though. However, I agree about context and, in particular, the character of the person writing. Ally is right that "all this PC nonsense" is a waste of time if we don't change the underlying culture of fear and hate against those who are different to ourselves. However, I still don't see this as an open license to engage in name-calling. That's just an opinion though. Back to context: if I call my friends "whores", they consider it a term of endearment but if I say it's okay that JTR killed the women he did because "they were just whores", many people would say the latter statement is derogatory or offensive. For me, the bottomline is this, to many people on this site, the victims of these JTR crimes do matter. This seems to run contrary to the word "misogynist" - which of course raises the most interesting thing about this post. If you call someone a misogynist and they aren't, that is name-calling and derogatory and that's not okay!

[belinda]

Why should misogyny be treated any differently than any other form of offense? As a woman, I don't need any special treatment. If a post is offensive, regardless of the reason why, hit the Report Post button and report it to the Admin.

What she said

[Sasha]

Now that is skimming Godwin's Law.



The whole thread made me actually wonder if I did use whore or prostitute on the threads. I hope it was the latter.

It wasn't you!

LOL
Sasha

[Sox]

Tough subject, in many of the books on Jack the Ripper you will see the victims described as whores, or worse. The point is this: When Billy Bloggs the Sheet Metal worker is killed you do not see headlines like, SHEET METAL WORKER BUTCHERED.

The trials of Peter Sutcliffe and Denis Nilson highlighted this specific problem, in court the victims were often reffered to as 'prostitutes' or 'gay men', and at Sutcliffe's trial in particular, it led to several warnings from the judge. There is, in a sense, a certain degree of de-humanizastion going on in all of this, simply because of the stigma that society attatches to being a prostitute or a homosexual.

They were not whores, or puffs, or sluts etc, they were people.Human beings who's lives were destroyed on the whims of vicious killers.

Whore has become an ugly term.But I cant see whats wrong with sex worker to describe work in the sex trade--if thats what you do for a living.It has no hidden connotation or anything, ...

Hi Norma,

From my perspective; the term "sex worker" is suggestive of a chosen profession, with which the person to whom it refers is quite content.

I perceive the term as being applicable to porn stars, strippers, prostitutes, et al ..., who approach there work as professionals: Inclined to do their jobs to the best of their abilities, so as to gain the greatest possible return, for their efforts.

Ironically, this invention of the politically correct mindset should be seen as a degrading and insulting reference - in my opinion - to those who must reluctantly resort to prostitution at the height of desperation. It implies resignation that they have found their callings in life, and trivializes their plights.


Colin

[Natalie Severn]

Ally,
I know its late but we"ve just been to the Holland Park Opera to see Verdi"s Il Trovatore.It was magnificent.
Regarding the word "retard".If ,as a teacher,you used it in a state school,you could get the sack----if reported-no kidding.Ditto wog and paki and in my view these are definitely offensive words.The word whore is naff ,old fashioned , a bit crude and is usually combined with another adjective like dirty,these days-words change their meanings as they pass through centuries so what was maybe ok 100 years ago isnt today.Whore has become an ugly term.But I cant see whats wrong with sex worker to describe work in the sex trade--if thats what you do for a living.It has no hidden connotation or anything,which is what I object to about whore.
Cheers

[Robert]

Hi AP

I wouldn't know about that, I'm afraid. But I'm sure the female sex workers would appreciate a go-slow.

[Cap'n Jack]

Robert, glad to see the tea is still working.
But surely the gay sex workers would remain unaffected by such a strike?
As their tools were already down?

[nickie]

I have to agree with Ally

Hi All,
IMHO I would have to agree with Ally about the whole PC thing being bull. Whatever happened to freedom of speech (here in the States anyway)??? Yes I understand the ramifications of that entitlement that you will either offend or hurt someone, but HELLO...these are only words, not poison darts. It's like when I was a kid and mom used the old adage "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me" if someone hurt my sister's feelings by calling her an ignorant name..she had a speech impediment and was teased all the time and called just about everything from a retard to a moron at 4years old...
just my opinion...yes a child doesn't deserve this, but adults need to grow a hard skin to this crap.
Regards,

[Robert]

I don't much like "sex worker." It makes me wonder what would happen if they went on strike - would male sex workers down tools?

[Cap'n Jack]

If you look through the media reports, and court cases from 1888, the terms 'whore' and 'prostitute' are generally used in their true context, meaning a woman who employs her sex in a commercial manner for gain.
Of course one often finds the terms used out of context, as insults against women who are not in the trade, but one hopes not here, for we do discuss the murder of a number of working prostitutes in 1888, and they were without a shadow of doubt 'whores' in 1888.
I can see no reasonable justification for not using such terms, in their historical context.
It was not so long ago that one of the posters here criticised my self for using such terms, and asked me to refer to the victims as 'sex workers'.
I thought that term abominable.
I thought of ants.

As many know I am of mixed race, and am often referred to as a 'wog', or 'Paki', but I take no offence at that, as I am quite rightly proud to be a 'wog' or a 'Paki'.
I find a person often defines their essential being by being exactly what the insult is intended to mean.
Then it is no longer an insult, but an affirmation of self.

[Ally]

Hi Pinkerton,

I think the difference is in definition. Whore has a literal definition based on an occupation and a behavior a person is capable of changing. Retard has a literal defintion based on a condition ..being stupid ..that is in a person's ability to change (not talking about retarded people here but retard used as a pejorative).

I have no problem insulting someone based on any item that is based on things that are within their control. Religion, character, bitchiness, all of these things are choices.

I personally would not use n*gger to insult someone because, really, what would I be saying, " You're black!" Ooh snap. I don't think being black is an insult. So I wouldn't use any words that mean black as insult.

Of course, I wouldn't call a retarded person a retard as an insult either because what would be the point? That would be like calling me a bitch. It's more of an exercise in futility as an insult than a problem with political correctness.

[Pinkerton]

No linguistic PC is pretty much all bollocks. You don't change people's attitudes, mindsets or beliefs by attempting to tell them what words are appropriate and which are not.

It isn't the WORD it's how it is used. When its used to stifle debate, or when you criticize someone for using a term that clearly wasn't meant as an insult then its clearly gone too far. However as Natalie said, as a basic term of respect and politeness it definitely has it's use.

And its funny how people who claim to be 100% against so called "political correctness" would agree that using a racial epithet like "n*gger" would clearly be offensive and out of bounds. Yet they have no problems using the term "bitch" or "whore". Its a bit hypocritical don't you think?

Not to mention that the right-wing now uses the term "political correctness" for ANYTHING they don't like--including IDEAS. If I were to say that the "native population of the United States got royally screwed" I'm sure some right-winger would call that "political correctness".