Ethical question - Misogyny on these boards

[protohistorian]

Hi Nats,

Actually, I was doing the opposite of judging the victims on the basis of what they did to earn money. Jack judged them to be expendable and it was his weakness for murder and mutilation that doomed them. I certainly don't blame them in their circumstances if they took to drink to dull their senses when they could see no way out of their situation. That does not even begin to compare with the selfish gits who are a million times better off in every possible way than those women were in 1888, but abuse alcohol today (or drugs or food or whatever) while their families suffer all the consequences.

It was just astonishingly bad luck (like the reverse of winning the lottery if you like) that they were the 'unfortunates' to encounter a serial killer, out of all the others like them who just carried on living their miserable lives in poverty until they died some other way. I would no more judge the victims for selling their orifices to survive another day than I would judge the match girls for selling their jaws and hoping not to get a 'phossy' one in the process. Both occupations involved men taking immoral advantage of women's bits, and both were likely to cause suffering and premature death.

I think it only adds insult to injury when some people today choose to ignore the evidence that a Whitechapel victim only got her throat cut because she had the huge misfortune to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and instead seek to conjure up all kinds of unsupported scenarios involving a wronged boyfriend getting even.

Love,

Caz
X

nice!!

[protohistorian]

It's a dangerous premise, but I can see exactly what you mean.

JB

Well put !!!!!

[Billy Bulger]

Hi everyone,
considering recent comments on another thread http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=870 should we be concerned that some people are displaying intolerance towards women.

In my own view we should.

kind regards,
Chris Lowe

Hi Chris,
I havent seen any of these threads you mention nor do I want to but while I personally cannot speak for everyone, I do feel I represent the vast majority of students interested in the Whitechapel Murders when I say the primary interest in Jack the Ripper is the whodunnit aspect and the inherent romance of the great Victorian mystery and not the fact that he murdered 5 women.
Ripperologist communities, I suspect, make for easy targets regarding accussations of sexism and misogony and its this stereotype that grinds me, personally, the most. In truth I think its best to dismiss the afore mentioned threads as the work of very small minds.
I would also like to add that in recent years the publication of several Ripper books written by female authors has done the case the world of good.

[caz]

Well said Cap'n. As with any type of addiction, I suspect the sufferer (or 'offender' where others are affected) needs a powerful reason to cut down or cut out his/her poison. The short sharp shock of your stroke did the trick for you.

For others it might be the threat of their home being repossessed or losing their partner or child. On our wedding anniversary a few years back, I finally plucked up all my courage and told hubby to take his gin bottle and go and live with his mum if he honestly thought that hitting the hard stuff every night was not slowly poisoning his relationships with his nearest and dearest. I had to mean it and he had to know I meant it. He hasn't touched spirits from that day to this and 'restricts' himself to cider and red wine, which just makes him sleepy instead of turning him into Mr Hyde. I've got my Dr Jekyll back but I defy anyone to say it's easy or quick or painless.

For a Whitechapel unfortunate, with precious little to live for anyway, even the short sharp shock of hearing about the latest murder, and wondering who would be next on the lord high executioner's little list, was clearly not going to make the comfort provided by a tot of gin worth sacrificing.

Love,

Caz
X

[sdreid]

Cap'n Jack meet Captain Morgan and Yukon Jack.

[John Bennett]

Simply put, I used to use alcohol to make things vanish, but now I use alcohol to make things appear... like this post.

It's a dangerous premise, but I can see exactly what you mean.

JB

[Cap'n Jack]

Well, yes, John, my eloquence is well known when I drink alcohol.
And my venom.
I used to be an alcoholic, but these days I'm just a drunk.
In my younger days I gave myself unbridled and uncontrolled access to alcohol where I achieved little else apart from getting drunk, fortunately I had the funds to indulge such an expensive habit. Which does make me wonder how alcoholics fuel their passion, now and then?
They can't work, so they must rely on some other device to survive... like prostitution perhaps?
Or being a writer?
At some point in my life, I think at forty when I had a stroke, brought on by port, sherry and brandy, I decided to exercise some control over my demons, and banished them from my life, apart from between the hours of 6pm and midnight; and since then have successfully contributed to society in a positive fashion, and am now a successful business man, as well as an author with a few titles to my name.
I made a choice.
I'm sure that anyone can make that simple choice.
To split the demon in half.
I never want to give up being a drunk, but I never want to go back and be an alcoholic.
Simply put, I used to use alcohol to make things vanish, but now I use alcohol to make things appear... like this post.

[Dan Norder]

What was a Romani doing in first century Palestine? It's amazing what some people will take seriously!

Well, in folklore anyway the Romani are direct descendants of the Ancient Egyptian alchemists (hence the name Gypsy). That idea was taken seriously for a long time, so the Jesus nail theft story isn't all that remarkable in comparison.

[John Bennett]

Romans They Go The House?????

[Sam Flynn]

What was a Romani doing in first century Palestine?

Going home, perhaps? ("Romani ite domum" - The Life of Brian)

[John Bennett]

The idea that alcoholism is a disease and one that is beyond the control of the afflicted is a myth that has been perpetuated and lobbied for by Alcoholics Anonymous which has a vested interest in it being perceived as such. This despite research that shows that many 'diagnosed' alcoholics CAN go back to moderate drinking, and that is it not the all or nothing proposition that the propaganda on it would have you believe. But god forbid you tell people that it's in their power to control. Then AA has no power over you. And they can sit comfy in their idea that it's not their fault, it's a "disease" and they are victims.

I agree, Ally. Alcoholism is NOT a disease.

It is an unfortunate result of over-dependence on a substance that can 'make one feel good' or forget. Habit can also be a major factor on reliance.

I'm sure there's somebody here who could give a more educated summise of acoholism than me, though.

[Christine]

What was a Romani doing in first century Palestine? It's amazing what some people will take seriously!

[Dan Norder]

I believe in Yugoslavia there is a joke that "gypsies stole the fourth nail at the crucifixion." I suppose some people would censor that, but why? Let's have everybody telling jokes about everyone.

This is off topic (like lots of posts on the boards), but that one isn't exactly a joke. It's a longstanding bit of folklore both among the Romani and others that gypsies ran off with a mail or other implement that was going to be used when putting Jesus on the cross. Some non-gypsies consider this a slam against the group in an offshoot of the eternal Wandering Jew story and that the gypsies as a whole were forced to wander the world as a curse for being thieves and insulting Jesus in some way. (The standard tale is that a Jew hit/assaulted Jesus as he carried his cross and was individually cursed to wander the world, never knowing death until the end of the world.) Some gypsies believe that stealing the nail (or one of the whips or some weapon that was going to be used, etc.) lessened Jesus' pain and so that they were rewarded with never having to settle and (in some versions) with the gift of expertise in blacksmithing. So, anyway, some gypsies would be surprised and probably even offended to learn that that's thought of as a joke.

But now back to the regularly scheduled thread, already in progress...

[caz]

Hi Nats,

Actually, I was doing the opposite of judging the victims on the basis of what they did to earn money. Jack judged them to be expendable and it was his weakness for murder and mutilation that doomed them. I certainly don't blame them in their circumstances if they took to drink to dull their senses when they could see no way out of their situation. That does not even begin to compare with the selfish gits who are a million times better off in every possible way than those women were in 1888, but abuse alcohol today (or drugs or food or whatever) while their families suffer all the consequences.

It was just astonishingly bad luck (like the reverse of winning the lottery if you like) that they were the 'unfortunates' to encounter a serial killer, out of all the others like them who just carried on living their miserable lives in poverty until they died some other way. I would no more judge the victims for selling their orifices to survive another day than I would judge the match girls for selling their jaws and hoping not to get a 'phossy' one in the process. Both occupations involved men taking immoral advantage of women's bits, and both were likely to cause suffering and premature death.

I think it only adds insult to injury when some people today choose to ignore the evidence that a Whitechapel victim only got her throat cut because she had the huge misfortune to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and instead seek to conjure up all kinds of unsupported scenarios involving a wronged boyfriend getting even.

Love,

Caz
X

[Robert]

I believe in Yugoslavia there is a joke that "gypsies stole the fourth nail at the crucifixion." I suppose some people would censor that, but why? Let's have everybody telling jokes about everyone.

Robert