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[Joshua Rogan]

With regard to Kelly's family, the Evening News contains the following;

14 Nov 1888
The funeral of the murdered woman Kelly will not take place until after the arrival from Wales of some of her relatives and friends, who are expected to reach London this evening. If they be unable to provide the necessary funeral expenses, Mr. H Wilton, of 119 High street, Shoreditch, has guaranteed that the unfortunate woman shall not be buried in a pauper's grave. Any person, however, who may be desirous of sharing the expense with Mr. Wilton can communicate with him. The remains, according to present arrangements, will be interred either on Thursday or Friday at the new Chingford cemetery.

15 Nov
The relatives of the murdered woman, who were expected yesterday, have not yet arrived. The funeral has been again postponed, and may not take place until Monday. Yesterday afternoon the remains were removed from the temporary coffin in which they have been lying at the Shoreditch Mortuary, and placed in a coffin of French polished elm and oak, with brass handles, in which they will be interred. Mr. McCarthy, the landlord of the deceased, offered to defray part of the cost of the funeral, but his offer was declined, sufficient funds for the purpose having already been subscribed.

[Flower and Dean]

Regarding the MJK conversation, I think the reason given by people who doubt it was her is that given how bad the damage was, her identification could be made more difficult and somewhat hurried. It would also explain the sightings after she was supposed to be dead*.

Personally, I don't think there's a particularly strong reason to think it wasn't her. Barnett supposedly identified her using things like her hair, and I'd assume that even without seeing the faces of people I'm close to I'd be able to tell with reasonably certainty it was them. Mistakes can happen but this would require someone who looked very similar to MJK to also have known her... that seems like a big coincidence to me.

The fact that MJK's family wouldn't come forward doesn't surprise me that much. If she was estranged from them, it sounds like they may not even know where she was or care to confirm that it was indeed her. We don't have to look very far to see that this could be the case. Annie Chapman's sisters, for instance, don't seem to be mentioned much and it sounds like they weren't keen on getting mixed up in the investigation.

* This is then usually explained as MJK deciding to start over by letting everyone think she was dead. While that doesn't sound impossible, I wonder if that's very compatible with the same Mary Jane Kelly who was willing to put a strain on her relationship with Barnett to give her friends a place to sleep.

[Herlock Sholmes]

With regards to MJK not being the one in the room, how likely is it that Barnett, who shared a bed with her, misidentified her?

As far as a family member not coming forward, that assumes that she did have family. And that can also be turned around. If she had family and ran off without informing them why did they not report to the police that they had concerns about a missing family member at a time when young women were being murdered?

c.d.

I agree with you c.d. The simplest answer is usually the truth. You find a dead woman in Mary Kelly's bed in Mary Kelly's room. The person closest to her identifies the body as Mary Kelly (albeit under difficult circumstances). Mary Kelly occupied the room alone. Mary Kelly was seen and heard in Miller's Court the previous evening. Unless you have some preconception about a conspiracy what possible reason is there to suggest that the body isn't that of Mary Kelly? She was obviously estranged from her family and if they learned of her fate later on perhaps they just didn't want to have it known that there relative was an east end prostitute killed by Jack the Ripper.
Regards
HS

[c.d.]

With regards to MJK not being the one in the room, how likely is it that Barnett, who shared a bed with her, misidentified her?

As far as a family member not coming forward, that assumes that she did have family. And that can also be turned around. If she had family and ran off without informing them why did they not report to the police that they had concerns about a missing family member at a time when young women were being murdered?

c.d.

I forgot to add that the same thing could be said about the family of the woman who was actually murdered in MJK's bed if true. Why did they not come forward to the police with their concerns?

c.d.

[c.d.]

Hi c.d.
I take your point. It's just an area that's always fascinated me.

Regards
HS

I understand too. It is a tantalizing clue.

c.d.

[c.d.]

With regards to MJK not being the one in the room, how likely is it that Barnett, who shared a bed with her, misidentified her?

As far as a family member not coming forward, that assumes that she did have family. And that can also be turned around. If she had family and ran off without informing them why did they not report to the police that they had concerns about a missing family member at a time when young women were being murdered?

c.d.

[Herlock Sholmes]

That's why I favour the "dipped in a pool of Eddowes' blood" hypothesis to explain why that particular corner of the apron was wet with blood.

The point that I make though Sam is, why did he take it away with him? And why did he discard it ?

HS

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hello HS,

I just can't get too worked up about the GSG. Even if we could prove beyond doubt that Jack wrote it we would still have no idea what it means.

c.d.

Hi c.d.
I take your point. It's just an area that's always fascinated me.

Regards
HS

[Sam Flynn]

I seem to remember that it was a fair sized piece of cloth so it would have had to have been a pretty serious injury (as opposed to, say a cut finger).

That's why I favour the "dipped in a pool of Eddowes' blood" hypothesis to explain why that particular corner of the apron was wet with blood.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Apologies

It's all about including the quote! Sorry about messing up the thread guys. Very stupid of me not to include the quote to direct the reply.

HS

[c.d.]

Hello HS,

I just can't get too worked up about the GSG. Even if we could prove beyond doubt that Jack wrote it we would still have no idea what it means.

c.d.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hello HS,

Jack could have cut himself during the attack and used the apron to help stop the bleeding.

c.d.

Sorry c.d. I am utterly useless with technology. I posted a reply to your message but it appeared further on. I hope that this message appears next to your message! If it doesn't then I'm going off to stick my head in a bucket of cold water!
Regards
HS

[Herlock Sholmes]

Amateur posting

Sorry guys, this post shouldn't have appeared here as it was a direst reply to C.d.

Regards

HS (techno-idiot)

[Flower and Dean]

Hi F&D,

Sadly, I don't believe this will ever happen. Nigh on every avenue of possibility has been covered.
Speaking personally..I concluded long ago it wasn't "MJK" at all in that room. The chance that at the time, with all the press coverage, no family member realised that one of their own had been the subject of the most awful mutilation possible..and not contact the police..seems too far fetched to realistically consider. Even twenty years after the event.
Nothing.


Regards


Phil

I thought we could pick unrealistic things in this thread, which is why I picked it even if I don't think we'll have ever definite proof.

Personally, it's not too weird to me that her family wouldn't know it was her or get in touch with the police. They don't seem to have been around during her last years so they could well not have known that the same woman who died was her (or perhaps didn't care to know).

I don't believe that it wasn't her, though I admit I've had my doubts from time to time.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hello c.d.

Good point. I don't have any books near me at the moment so I can't check but I seem to remember that it was a fair sized piece of cloth so it would have had to have been a pretty serious injury (as opposed to, say a cut finger). Also, wouldn't it be likely that the injury would still be bleeding in the short time it would have taken him to reach Goulston Street? That would make it unlikely that he would discard it. At nearly 130 years distance there are very few certainties here so you could be right.
Regards
HS