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  • #16
    a cut throat does not make a ripper victim...

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    • #17
      Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
      Hello Jason. Thanks.

      Why must one, the other or both be lunatics?

      Do you think that EVERY unsolved knife killing of a woman between 1887 and 1891 in London was by the same hand? If not, then you, too, believe in multiple hands.

      Cheers.
      LC
      These murders were a lot more than simple knife murders.
      Three things in life that don't stay hidden for to long ones the sun ones the moon and the other is the truth

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      • #18
        of course it is possible that one person did indeed commit all of these attacks...

        but...It is also possible that these attacks were committed by different people

        numerous people perhaps...

        is it possible that victims were attacked from behind by one person and an accomplice joined in the attack from the front...maybe there was a look out

        some of these murders may be unconnected but have been absorbed...

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        • #19
          You can't handle the truth...

          Here's how I see it boys and girls...


          Emma Smith Gang of Four

          Martha Tabram 2 PTSD soldiers

          Mary Nichols Deranged Carman

          Annie Chapman Mad Jew

          Catherine Eddowes German Sailor

          Liz Stride Prussian Spy

          MJK Fenian syndicate

          Torso Dr. Frankenstein

          Alice Mackenzie Vlad the Impaler

          Frances Coles drunken foundry worker

          Ellen Bury suicide

          All the rest Road Rage


          Any questions?


          Greg

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          • #20
            makes perfect sense...no questions...

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            • #21
              1 killer for the canonical 5 is the minimum amount he murdered. Do to the escalating complexity of the murders, to ascribe more hands means you need more bodies for each murderer to account for the complexity. Those bodies simply are not there. The killer lies them down before slashing their necks. That alone is quite a unique MO for the time and place. Victomolgy is the same too.
              Bona fide canonical and then some.

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              • #22
                I won't be hoodwinked into accepting a cut throat as a bona fide ripper vicim...

                he was interrupted...says who?

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by GregBaron View Post
                  Here's how I see it boys and girls...


                  Emma Smith – Gang of Four

                  Martha Tabram – 2 PTSD soldiers

                  Mary Nichols – Deranged Carman

                  Annie Chapman – Mad Jew

                  Catherine Eddowes – German Sailor

                  Liz Stride – Prussian Spy

                  MJK – Fenian syndicate

                  Torso – Dr. Frankenstein

                  Alice Mackenzie – Vlad the Impaler

                  Frances Coles – drunken foundry worker

                  Ellen Bury – suicide

                  All the rest – Road Rage


                  Any questions?


                  Greg
                  Good one.

                  One question though.....I thought MJK was killed by the landlord who sent Bowyer to collect her rent, who then sat back in his chair after Bowyer had left, and ate an apple whilst chuckling to himself.

                  Or did you mean the landlord by fenian syndicate? If so I apologise for my ignorance.
                  Last edited by J6123; 02-13-2015, 03:09 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Frankenstein! Good one, Greg.

                    How I think of this is in terms of probability, odds.

                    What's the odds of there being two or more killers in the same time period and limited territory? Well, it happens all the time. And it happened in the East End. No question there. So this question isn't useful to my theory that there was one guy doing all these Ripper murders.

                    Next:

                    What's the odds that two or more killers will choose victims from the exact same victim pool in that small area? Okay, the victims were all in what is probably the number #2 worldwide, history-wide, most vulnerable victim pool, next to children. Not helpful.

                    What's the odds of there being two killers who kill their victims first, then mutilate them? Answer: significantly lower odds for this happening.

                    Next:

                    What the odds of two or more killers sharing the habit of leaving their victims posed with legs splayed, as well as killing then mutilating the victims? Ooh look, odds are dropping like a punter's drawers.

                    Next:

                    What the odds of two or more killers a/ posing victims with legs splayed, b/ killing, then mutilating, AND c/ removing organs from the scene?

                    I won't go on... but a few more "nexts" down the road, the odds just start becoming ridiculous.

                    ps -- I realise I likely skipped a few things

                    PS: I agree with you, Chris, regarding the cut throat. But do you seriously think anyone's trying to 'hoodwink' you? Here, have a grape.
                    Last edited by Ausgirl; 02-13-2015, 03:23 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by GregBaron View Post
                      Here's how I see it boys and girls...


                      Emma Smith Gang of Four

                      Martha Tabram 2 PTSD soldiers

                      Mary Nichols Deranged Carman

                      Annie Chapman Mad Jew

                      Catherine Eddowes German Sailor

                      Liz Stride Prussian Spy

                      MJK Fenian syndicate

                      Torso Dr. Frankenstein

                      Alice Mackenzie Vlad the Impaler

                      Frances Coles drunken foundry worker

                      Ellen Bury suicide

                      All the rest Road Rage


                      Any questions?


                      Greg
                      G U T

                      There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by pinkmoon View Post
                        What are the odds of having two lunatics killing people in such a small area?
                        They did - the "Torso Murderer" and Jack. Of course you might like to say Jack was the "Torso Murderer" but then why was he killing on land while "Torso" used the Thames?

                        Jeff

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by chrismasonic View Post
                          I won't be hoodwinked into accepting a cut throat as a bona fide ripper vicim...

                          he was interrupted...says who?
                          That's not the claim.

                          The claim is he put them on their back (or they where on their back already) before murdering them.

                          Let's try not straw man the facts.
                          Bona fide canonical and then some.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Ausgirl View Post
                            . They also weren't all killed at the same precise stroke of the clock, yep....
                            The only time the victims are killed at the same precise stroke of a clock is in some contrived detective novel.

                            Jeff

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by GregBaron View Post
                              Here's how I see it boys and girls...


                              Emma Smith Gang of Four

                              Martha Tabram 2 PTSD soldiers

                              Mary Nichols Deranged Carman

                              Annie Chapman Mad Jew

                              Catherine Eddowes German Sailor

                              Liz Stride Prussian Spy

                              MJK Fenian syndicate

                              Torso Dr. Frankenstein

                              Alice Mackenzie Vlad the Impaler

                              Frances Coles drunken foundry worker

                              Ellen Bury suicide

                              All the rest Road Rage


                              Any questions?


                              Greg
                              Winner winner chicken dinner!
                              "Is all that we see or seem
                              but a dream within a dream?"

                              -Edgar Allan Poe


                              "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                              quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                              -Frederick G. Abberline

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by GregBaron View Post
                                Here's how I see it boys and girls...

                                Catherine Eddowes German Sailor

                                Liz Stride Prussian Spy

                                MJK Fenian syndicate

                                Ellen Bury suicide

                                Greg
                                I always secretly suspected Otto von Bismarck's fine hand in the double header event - obviously he had not forgiven Alexandra, the Princess of Wales, for trying to get Queen Victoria and Lord Palmerston to send military aid to Denmark in the Schleswig-Holstein War of 1863-64.

                                It probably would have taken a "Fenian syndicate" to go into Mary's digs on Dorset Street, and with military precision take her body apart.

                                If the last is true, somebody in the British Government (or at least the Scottish Department) owes William Bury a deep apology - - BIG TIME!!

                                Jeff

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