The Truth; part 1

[Michael W Richards]

Are you kidding me Michael? My missus gave birth to a (second) set of twins at 42 and only went through the change many years later...it ain't that unusual...so to what abstract LVP age do you ascribe menopause?

All the best

Dave

Hi Dave,

Here is some data on the average age of women giving birth, from the Office of National Statistics, 2014;

"According to the Office for National Statistics a typical woman having a baby in England and Wales is now just weeks short of her 30th birthday while first-time mothers are also older than ever before, at just over 28 years old.......By contrast in the late 1960s and early 1970s more mothers were under 25 than above......in Westernized Countries in the 1800's the poor women tended to marry between 16 and 18 years old and start a family within a year."

What my comments were intended to illustrate is for the times, a woman older than her husband by a decade having a child in both her 36 and 37th year would be considered unusual.

Menopause averages were 40-42 for women in the late 1800's, so you can assume that in 1860, it was likely less than that age.

Cheers

[pinkmoon]

My wife managed to squeeze out our last one 6 years ago at the tender age of 40.

[Cogidubnus]

so would be giving birth at 37.

Are you kidding me Michael? My missus gave birth to a (second) set of twins at 42 and only went through the change many years later...it ain't that unusual...so to what abstract LVP age do you ascribe menopause?

All the best

Dave

[Amanda]

1881 census

You better hurry up and present your case. I think I already found your MJK married and still married in 1911.

Hi MayBea,

I think I've found the real MJK married to John Davies, a tin worker at the mines in Carmarthenshire in 1881. She was born in 1863 & John was killed in a mining accident shortly after the 1881 census records.
Does that sound correct?

Amanda

[Michael W Richards]

As this is my first time on here, hello everyone.
First I must refer to my name, before you all, I stand by this title and when i'm finished posting my information, I believe you all will see that I can also walk the walk, we shall see soon.
On the 11th of November 1999 whilst looking into details of the Whitechapel murders, I came across a routine Government document that said in a few words, mundane information but, to me it shouted wonderful things about Jack. I spent the next 14 years researching the murders with the key I discovered, a key that opened door after door, you will share with me nearly all of what I discovered. The range of evidence that I will display covers nearly every aspect of the killings so I am unable to place it in a single category.
I will start by giving details of the victims, then details of the murders, I will then tell you who carried out the 5 killings and then start feeding information on him/her then give details and evidence to back up this bold statement. All I ask is you wait until all of the evidence is presented before you cast your verdict, as a goodwill gesture I will show you now details of a Kelly family I found after many, many months of looking into all families of the name Kelly in the whole of the UK, I won't insult you all as to what details are known of Mary Jane Kelly, read what I discovered and then look at the whole picture.
Census 1871.
John Kelly head of family married 34 Private (born) 1837 Ireland
Elizabeth wife " 45 Soldiers wife 1826 Ireland
Michael son un " 13 Soldiers child 1858 Ireland
Mary Jane dau " " 9 Soldiers child 1862 Ireland
Henry son " " 7 Soldiers child 1864 Ireland
This entry can be found on the 14th and 15th page of the census for The Royal Marine Barracks, Portsea, Hampshire.
Then in 1881 census I discovered this entry.
Henry Kelly, Gunner RM Artillery, unmarried age 20 born Ireland
Head of Household, Archibald Gillespie, Royal Marine Barracks Eastney (8th Co), Portsea Hampshire.
Part 2 soon.

With all due respect Ive been around here for about 10 years and Ive seen announcements like this more than once.

The fact that the wife is apparently 11 years older than the husband in the above data causes me some concern. I would think that kind of age disparity among married couples of that era would have been unusual, so would be giving birth at 37.

Cheers

[Amanda]

Well...

I think I should give him another day or two; don't you?

I believe in helping people build up their theories before tearing it to shreds.

Then again, maybe it won't make a difference to his theory. Perhaps it's a Mary Survived theory.

Hi MayBea,

Least we can hope is that Jack Finder isn't trying to peddle a diary!

Amanda

[MayBea]

I think I should give him another day or two; don't you?

I believe in helping people build up their theories before tearing it to shreds.

Then again, maybe it won't make a difference to his theory. Perhaps it's a Mary Survived theory.

[robhouse]

You better hurry up and present your case. I think I already found your MJK married and still married in 1911.

Can you go ahead and post it then?

[GUT]

You better hurry up and present your case. I think I already found your MJK married and still married in 1911.

wish I was as clever at finding people as you are MayBea most days I struggle to find me.

[MayBea]

...All I ask is you wait until all of the evidence is presented before you cast your verdict...

You better hurry up and present your case. I think I already found your MJK married and still married in 1911.

[Rosella]

Of course, if it is the 1891 census that is meant, the odds are that Mary Jane would be married at the age of 29 and be living elsewhere, under her married name.

I agree, it is an interesting find. As we know, in World War One, boys of fourteen put their ages up to get into the British army and many were accepted. If Henry Kelly was physically fit, looked a bit older than his age, seemed mature, the recruiting officers would have taken him.

In very poor families birthdays weren't celebrated and people often didn't know their true age. Birth records weren't officially registered in Ireland until late, after 1865. Before that, authorities had to rely on parish records if they needed to check births, marriages and deaths.

[MrBarnett]

Duplicate

[GUT]

1881 census?

No I suspect he means 1891 because if so it's not our Mary.

[robhouse]

This record has the name Mary Jane Kelly and the Irish birthplace to commend it, so by no means the worst candidate to be MJK. The acid test, for me, is whether or not this woman can be found in the 1891 census. What's the answer, Jack Finder?

1881 census?

[Bridewell]

Census 1871.
John Kelly head of family married 34 Private (born) 1837 Ireland
Elizabeth wife " 45 Soldiers wife 1826 Ireland
Michael son un " 13 Soldiers child 1858 Ireland
Mary Jane dau " " 9 Soldiers child 1862 Ireland
Henry son " " 7 Soldiers child 1864 Ireland
This entry can be found on the 14th and 15th page of the census for The Royal Marine Barracks, Portsea, Hampshire.

This record has the name Mary Jane Kelly and the Irish birthplace to commend it, so by no means the worst candidate to be MJK. The acid test, for me, is whether or not this woman can be found in the 1891 census. What's the answer, Jack Finder?