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  • Leather Apron description

    Originally posted by Boggles in the Bury section and has always interested me. Do we think the reporter was correct in their ID of this person, or was it just gossip ID and could have been the ripper? The description broadly fits some of the others - 30, short, thick set, mustache. Interesting that the woman said he was seen with the victim (Chapman by the date). I presume the leather apron ref is just a general reference to someone who was possibly the ripper.

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  • #2
    Originally posted by Aethelwulf View Post
    Originally posted by Boggles in the Bury section and has always interested me. Do we think the reporter was correct in their ID of this person, or was it just gossip ID and could have been the ripper? The description broadly fits some of the others - 30, short, thick set, mustache. Interesting that the woman said he was seen with the victim (Chapman by the date). I presume the leather apron ref is just a general reference to someone who was possibly the ripper.

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    Hi wulf
    Interesting-Thanks for posting. Couldnt this have just been a real incident involving Leather Apron-Jon Pizer?
    "Is all that we see or seem
    but a dream within a dream?"

    -Edgar Allan Poe


    "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
    quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

    -Frederick G. Abberline

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

      Hi wulf
      Interesting-Thanks for posting. Couldnt this have just been a real incident involving Leather Apron-Jon Pizer?
      could be but i wonder if by this stage leather apron was just a sort of short hand way of referring to the ripper in general. I think there is another comment connected to one of the murders where a man in pub tells a woman to watch out as that is 'leather apron getting around you' or something similar.
      Last edited by Aethelwulf; 12-06-2022, 04:08 PM.

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      • #4
        Did Leather Apron Really Exist? by Paul Begg. Ripperologist no. 109, December 2009.

        An excellent source analysis.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Scott Nelson View Post
          Did Leather Apron Really Exist? by Paul Begg. Ripperologist no. 109, December 2009.

          An excellent source analysis.
          Thanks. Unless that is free online somewhere probs won't get to read it. What is the gist of it?

          Whoever the 'mad snob' was in the above report, he would make an interesting suspect. Right age and general physical description, hanging around the right area and abusing women. I guess in terms of other witnesses his abusive behaviour and build could be seen as similar to BS and the man described by Farmer.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Aethelwulf View Post

            Thanks. Unless that is free online somewhere probs won't get to read it. What is the gist of it?

            Whoever the 'mad snob' was in the above report, he would make an interesting suspect. Right age and general physical description, hanging around the right area and abusing women. I guess in terms of other witnesses his abusive behaviour and build could be seen as similar to BS and the man described by Farmer.
            Lucky for you, it is available free online:

            http://www.ripperologist.co.uk/backissues.html
            Thems the Vagaries.....

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

              Hi wulf
              Couldnt this have just been a real incident involving Leather Apron-Jon Pizer?
              Just read the article Al posted a link to.

              Whilst there is no doubt Pizer had the nickname leather apron, it seems he was not the leather apron that women in the area seem to have been afraid of. Sgt Thicke says he can vouch for Pizer, having known him for 18 years, and one of the women in the article I posted seems to have subsequently approached Pizer and said 'you're not him are you'. There is certainly not a jot of suspicion that Pizer was a habitual abuser and blackmailer. Perhaps the Mad Snob-leather apron could have some link to the BGB? If this mad snob bloke was indeed seen pacing up and down with Chapman two hours before the murder, I'd say there's a good chance he was the killer. As i said before, in build and age he does have some similarities to some of the other witness statements and his behaviour could be seen as simialr to BS man and Farmer's account of being ill used by a man of similar description.
              Last edited by Aethelwulf; 12-08-2022, 09:20 AM.

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              • #8
                Pizer may have been 'fitted up' to be Leather Apron, or he was a police plant. I think there was another character roaming about that was closer to the "real" LA.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Scott Nelson View Post
                  Pizer may have been 'fitted up' to be Leather Apron, or he was a police plant. I think there was another character roaming about that was closer to the "real" LA.
                  Yes, that's my impression reading the article. It seems there was a cruel, violent man roaming about who was known as LA and it wasn't JP.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Aethelwulf View Post

                    Just read the article Al posted a link to.

                    Whilst there is no doubt Pizer had the nickname leather apron, it seems he was not the leather apron that women in the area seem to have been afraid of. Sgt Thicke says he can vouch for Pizer, having known him for 18 years, and one of the women in the article I posted seems to have subsequently approached Pizer and said 'you're not him are you'. There is certainly not a jot of suspicion that Pizer was a habitual abuser and blackmailer. Perhaps the Mad Snob-leather apron could have some link to the BGB? If this mad snob bloke was indeed seen pacing up and down with Chapman two hours before the murder, I'd say there's a good chance he was the killer. As i said before, in build and age he does have some similarities to some of the other witness statements and his behaviour could be seen as simialr to BS man and Farmer's account of being ill used by a man of similar description.
                    "You're not him are you?" Was she asking him? That seems such a strange thing to both do and say. Accuse someone of being a notorious individual only to later approach them and realise it wasn't them after all. That suggests she was just following someone else's accusation rather than simply mistaking something she had witnessed herself.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Curious Cat View Post

                      "You're not him are you?" Was she asking him? That seems such a strange thing to both do and say. Accuse someone of being a notorious individual only to later approach them and realise it wasn't them after all. That suggests she was just following someone else's accusation rather than simply mistaking something she had witnessed herself.
                      No that's not what I meant. Perhaps I didn't phrase it properly. The man she is saying over and over again is LA and seen with Chapman was clearly not JP leather apron. It sounds like this woman found out JP was known as LA, tracked it him down and then realised the John Pizer LA was a different man to the one she made the police chase after, hence the 'your're not him'. There is better analysis in the ripper mag article.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Aethelwulf View Post

                        No that's not what I meant. Perhaps I didn't phrase it properly. The man she is saying over and over again is LA and seen with Chapman was clearly not JP leather apron. It sounds like this woman found out JP was known as LA, tracked it him down and then realised the John Pizer LA was a different man to the one she made the police chase after, hence the 'your're not him'. There is better analysis in the ripper mag article.
                        I see. Either way, it still makes no real sense for the woman to accuse someone of being 'Leather Apron' if they only know the name rather than the person. If she was familiar with the man she was accusing she would have no reason to approach John Pizer and have her great revelation.

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