If say for instance...

[Damaso Marte]

See, here is where a quantitative social scientist could really help advance Ripperology. It is often stated as a fact by posters on this site that facial mutilations mean the killer knew the victim. I hear this statement, and my immediate response obvious to me is "bullshit!", but other people just as intelligent as I hear this statement and it is obvious to them that it is true gospel.

Ultimately, both of us are having gut reactions that are unreliable even if one of us happens to be right. Until somebody brings actual rigor into this discussion, its all about what feels more plausible, and that's subjective.

[Lechmere]

Damaso
Please allow me to point you in the direction of a generic lower class local... even at the risk of Ripperology imploding.

Ravenetc
Who's to say that Kelly's killer was expecting to be taken in doors?

[Fisherman]

I agree with Fish.

This can't continue.

Twice in a weeksī time...? How big was that chance???

The best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

Must accept? Not if it doesn't fit in with their cunning suspect portraits. Don't be naive.

Mike

You got me there, admittedly.

The best,
Fisherman

[Sally]

I agree with Fish.

This can't continue.

[The Good Michael]

In conclusion, anybody who says that Kelly was personal for having her face cut, must also accept the same verdict on account of Eddowes - and for the exact same reason.

Must accept? Not if it doesn't fit in with their cunning suspect portraits. Don't be naive.

Mike

[Fisherman]

Fisherman

But Eddowes was still recognizable enough. He took a slash at her face, and cut the tip of the nose off.

Darkendale

Hereīs the relevant part from the post-mortem:

"The face was very much mutilated. There was a cut about a quarter of an inch through the lower left eyelid, dividing the structures completely through. The upper eyelid on that side, there was a scratch through the skin on the left upper eyelid, near to the angle of the nose. The right eyelid was cut through to about half an inch.

There was a deep cut over the bridge of the nose, extending from the left border of the nasal bone down near the angle of the jaw on the right side of the cheek. This cut went into the bone and divided all the structures of the cheek except the mucous membrane of the mouth.

The tip of the nose was quite detached by an oblique cut from the bottom of the nasal bone to where the wings of the nose join on to the face. A cut from this divided the upper lip and extended through the substance of the gum over the right upper lateral incisor tooth.

About half an inch from the top of the nose was another oblique cut. There was a cut on the right angle of the mouth as if the cut of a point of a knife. The cut extended an inch and a half, parallel with the lower lip.

There was on each side of cheek a cut which peeled up the skin, forming a triangular flap about an inch and a half. On the left cheek there were two abrasions of the epithelium under the left ear."

We may need to agree that he did more than "took a slash at her face", Raven. And in the end, it matters little - what made me bring Eddowes up was the statement that Kelly was the only one displaying wounds that may have been of a personal character. Cutting up a personsī face is generally regarded as potentially personal, and BOTH women had their faces cut up. Kelly worse so, yes - but we donīt know how much time the killer was offered with Eddowes, do we?

In conclusion, anybody who says that Kelly was personal for having her face cut, must also accept the same verdict on account of Eddowes - and for the exact same reason.

All the best,
Fisherman

[RavenDarkendale]

Fisherman

But Eddowes was still recognizable enough. He took a slash at her face, and cut the tip of the nose off. The body in Miller's Court was barely recognizable as human after all the carnage.

The killer of the majority of the Whitechapel victims worked outdoors. To go inside would be a major change of MO, personal fury aside...

God Bless

Darkendale

[Fisherman]

Eddowes facial wounds have been explained on previous threads which suggest that the wounds were not specifically carried out by the killer but wounds inflicted in the course of the killer trying to cut her throat and her trying to prevent this my moving her head about frantically.

Getting her eyelids nicked in the process ...? And the nose sliced off?

The best,
Fisherman

[Trevor Marriott]

Who says he "needed" the time and the light? But once he had time and light on his hands, why would he not use it?
Also, the Eddowes slaying is very "personal" in itīs character too, given the fact that he destroyed her face.

So did the same killer slay Eddowes and Kelly, but not the others?

The best,
Fisherman

Eddowes facial wounds have been explained on previous threads which suggest that the wounds were not specifically carried out by the killer but wounds inflicted in the course of the killer trying to cut her throat and her trying to prevent this my moving her head about frantically.

[Damaso Marte]

If you make any modifications to the C5 at all, Maybrick is out and the diary is certainly a fraud.

My preferred suspect of "generic lower class Whitechapel resident" has no particular alibi for the night of Tabram's death, however.

[Fisherman]

For myself, the Miller's Court Murder was too violently personal to fit into the other murders. I don't really buy the "he was indoors so he had more time" theory. With all the damage to Catherine Eddows he proved he cold do this quickly and with ruthless efficiency on the street in the dark. Why would such a man need a lot more time indoors with light? Especially peeling her lower body in just three large flaps?

Who says he "needed" the time and the light? But once he had time and light on his hands, why would he not use it?
Also, the Eddowes slaying is very "personal" in itīs character too, given the fact that he destroyed her face.

So did the same killer slay Eddowes and Kelly, but not the others?

The best,
Fisherman

[RavenDarkendale]

Andy, that's one of the ways I feel it went down. Martha Tabram in, Eliabeth Stride out. Does it eliminate Druitt? Maybe. Maybe not. A good many feel he is already eliminated. If you believe the murders stopped with Mark Kelly, then Druitt might be a suspect. If you add murders AFTER Mary Kelly, then Druitt was already dead.

For myself, the Miller's Court Murder was too violently personal to fit into the other murders. I don't really buy the "he was indoors so he had more time" theory. With all the damage to Catherine Eddows he proved he cold do this quickly and with ruthless efficiency on the street in the dark. Why would such a man need a lot more time indoors with light? Especially peeling her lower body in just three large flaps?

[andy1867]

Why?

Monty

Because a lot of people think Tabram a ripper victim , whereas a lot of people think Stride isn't
what?


or maybe how?

[Monty]

Why?

Monty