Evening News, Oct 29 1888

[Robert]

I have indeed read Dan's article and have said that I have. Short of filming myself reading it I can't really offer anything in the way of further assurance.

[Dan Norder]

Im at a loss to figure why a chalk message that has no overt message from a killer about killings became a storm of controversy, when a similar one that addressed killings and a heart to be taken, which was, wasnt brought up immediately when Mary was found.

Because one had a bloody piece of apron taken from an actual Ripper victim's body found next to it and the other was indistinguishable from all of the hoax messages that lifted information about the murders from press reports.

Which the likes of Perry and Robert wouldn't have bothered reading.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

You know a little more investigation before you come up with something assenine like the above might have revealed to you that I did read it and complimented Dan on it. How about for once Tom you address relevant points being discussed instead of trying to mock anyone that disagrees with you..you might learn something.

Thanks for the explanation Dan, and I see your angle. What I was wondering wasnt why this wasnt evidence per se...Im wondering why a little more than a week later they didnt announce they had a possible clue that this "event" was going to happen.

Im at a loss to figure why a chalk message that has no overt message from a killer about killings became a storm of controversy, when a similar one that addressed killings and a heart to be taken, which was, wasnt brought up immediately when Mary was found.

Cheers.

[Tom_Wescott]

The second snippet you mention above was mentioned with a little more detail in my "Heartless" article/dissertation.

Which the likes of Perry and Robert wouldn't have bothered reading.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Dan Norder]

Well, it certainly wasn't the only communication that promised something that came true. All sorts of letters claimed that another woman would have her throat cut soon, and so forth. You might argue that those aren't significant because everyone already knew that the killer slit throats and could just make that claim without being the murderer... but the problem is that at the time everyone also "knew" that the Ripper removed his victims' hearts. That idea may have been incorrect when this message was written, but it was what was reported in the papers and talked about by East End residents. There isn't anything to link this chalk writing to the actual killer.

If you were the police, when you first get the report that writing was found making this claim, the first thing they're going to think is that it's obviously from a hoaxer because there were lots of hoax letters and graffiti at the time. On top of that it mentioned taking the heart, and the police knew that the Ripper hadn't actually taken any hearts, so they had even more reason to think it was just somebody's stupid idea of a joke. By the time that Kelly's heart was actually taken and they knew about it, the message would have been a couple of weeks old and undoubtedly erased already. It's not like they could go out and photograph it, even assuming they remembered it and thought it might be significant.

Dan,

Im curious about something, you may or may not know the answer, or have an opinion.....but Im curious as to why this wall message didnt become very high profile within the context of the investigations, or at least Marys. Isnt this communique the only one that is accurate and specific about actions taken with a future alledged Ripper victim?

Why isnt this up there with the GSG, or Dear Boss or Saucy Jack in terms of prominence?

Best regards.

[Dan Norder]

Could very well be, yes.

[Barnaby]

The message was not so much a plan for Kelly as a rehash of false rumors that were already in circulation about what the Ripper had supposedly done to Eddowes and Chapman. In addition to the hoax letters we all know about, hoax chalk messages claiming to be from the killer were also popping up all over the place. The police had no reason to think this one was special, and it very likely wasn't... at least until the Ripper decided to make the rumors come true.

"Heartless" covers all that and more.

Fair enough. Could this be evidence, in light of Kelly, that the Ripper was reading his own press and acting accordingly.

[sdreid]

Hi 23,

Yes.

[23Skidoo]

Hi Michael,

That cryptic chalk message does sound a lot like a plan for Kelly. I wonder if they took a photo of that one or were still up to their old crime of spoliation of evidence. Do you know where this would be located on a map?

Are you asking where Camplin St was or where Deptford is?

Interesting article Dan, particularly finding all those references to a "hart".

I think due to the press, and the nature of the community...compressed, depressed and poor and angry..I would be very surprised if at least one of the attributed, and one or more of the non-canonicals, were not crime scenes that were influenced by prior press details.

Best regards.

[Dan Norder]

The message was not so much a plan for Kelly as a rehash of false rumors that were already in circulation about what the Ripper had supposedly done to Eddowes and Chapman. In addition to the hoax letters we all know about, hoax chalk messages claiming to be from the killer were also popping up all over the place. The police had no reason to think this one was special, and it very likely wasn't... at least until the Ripper decided to make the rumors come true.

"Heartless" covers all that and more.

Hi again,

Stan, I know nothing more about the location than you do...so thanks Dan for pointing out you have piece on this subject here. I'll be reading it shortly.

It seems an interesting message, as I think its the only "message" I recall that suggests a specific action that is done to an alledged Ripper victim in the near future....and remember Stan our dicussion of that 10 day window each month where he is active.

Best regards.

[sdreid]

Hi Michael,

That cryptic chalk message does sound a lot like a plan for Kelly. I wonder if they took a photo of that one or were still up to their old crime of spoliation of evidence. Do you know where this would be located on a map?

[Dan Norder]

The second snippet you mention above was mentioned with a little more detail in my "Heartless" article/dissertation.