A new front in the history wars? A new article on 'the five'

[MrBarnett]

Again, I don't believe Rubenhold's misinterpretation of those interested in the Whitechapel murders, will hold back the public should they have any interesting material in connection with the Whitechapel murders. As I said, that's even if they've heard of the woman. Genuine original material is that rare though isn't it? That's why I asked what your interpretation of "original research" was. What conclusions have you drawn from said book? It's mildly interesting I'd say.

I have no interest in solving the Ripper case. My focus at the time was researching Dr Killeen.

By ‘original research’ I meant research that involves contact with people outside of the Ripper bubble. Some people are fascinated when the Ripper is mentioned, others become suspicious. That’s my experience and the experience of others I’ve spoken to.

[MrBarnett]

Sorry Mr B obviously not the person I noted above.

Our posts crossed.

I hadn’t heard of Tom Pepper. Sounds like a chancer.

[Observer]

But as an example of interesting material that may still be out there in the hands of people who may read HR’s misrepresentation of Ripperologists I thought it worth mentioning on this thread.

Again, I don't believe Rubenhold's misinterpretation of those interested in the Whitechapel murders, will hold back the public should they have any interesting material in connection with the Whitechapel murders. As I said, that's even if they've heard of the woman. Genuine original material is that rare though isn't it? That's why I asked what your interpretation of "original research" was. What conclusions have you drawn from said book? It's mildly interesting I'd say.

[MrBarnett]

Just one more thing Mr B we had a wind up merchant, before the crash I believe, Tom Pepper never had a look in. If memory serves me well I'm sure he had in his possession a blood stained knife that was apparently found in a wall. I wonder if it's the same individual.

As I mentioned in another post, it was a book of testimonials that newly-qualified Dr Timothy Killeen had produced in 1888 in Ennis, Co. Clare. It seems he was only in London during 1888 before returning to Clare and spending the rest of his career there.

The Killeen family still live in the same townland - the same farmhouse - in rural Clare where Dr Tim was born and grew up. It was a member of the the Killeen family who generously provided the photos and other information. The family member in question was very clear that their name should not be mentioned when using the photos.

[Observer]

I have. Over on JTRForums.

It’s a photo of Dr Timothy Killeen and one of a book of testimonials he had produced in 1888 in Co. Clare, presumably before he came over to work in Dr Septimus Swyer’s practice in Brick Lane. It has splashes of what look like blood on the cover.

Whether he took this particular document to Spitalfields, and when in the past 132 years the blood splashes got on it (assuming it is blood and not claret), I don’t know. But as an example of interesting material that may still be out there in the hands of people who may read HR’s misrepresentation of Ripperologists I thought it worth mentioning on this thread.

Sorry Mr B obviously not the person I noted above.

[MrBarnett]

I have to ask Gary. Have you revealed the photo and possession yet?

I have. Over on JTRForums.

It’s a photo of Dr Timothy Killeen and one of a book of testimonials he had produced in 1888 in Co. Clare, presumably before he came over to work in Dr Septimus Swyer’s practice in Brick Lane. It has splashes of what look like blood on the cover.

Whether he took this particular document to Spitalfields, and when in the past 132 years the blood splashes got on it (assuming it is blood and not claret), I don’t know. But as an example of interesting material that may still be out there in the hands of people who may read HR’s misrepresentation of Ripperologists I thought it worth mentioning on this thread.

[Observer]

Just one more thing Mr B we had a wind up merchant, before the crash I believe, Tom Pepper never had a look in. If memory serves me well I'm sure he had in his possession a blood stained knife that was apparently found in a wall. I wonder if it's the same individual.

[Observer]

Deleted by mistake. My apologies.

[Herlock Sholmes]

But we are discussing her misrepresentation of Ripperologists, not her theories about the murders.

I recently communicated with the descendant of an individual who attended one of the WM crime scenes. This person provided me with a photo of the individual in question and one of a possession of his, dated 1888, that has what appears to be bloodstains on it.

In this case, the descendant initiated contact through JTForums. When contact is made in the other direction there’s always the danger that the person you are contacting will clam up as soon as you mention JTR. The public perception of Ripperologists is something that concerns me and many others in the field. If it doesn’t concern you, then bully for you old chap.

I have to ask Gary. Have you revealed the photo and possession yet?

[MrBarnett]

It’s her “war” with Ripperologists that the public finds interesting. That’s why she used the controversy (that she largely manufactured) to sell her book. Her Twitter feed is full of people who brag about buying ‘The Five’ solely as a show of support. Id suggest what she proposes in her book isn’t what those people are interested in, they look at the book as a membership badge.

JM

Yes, she presents it as a choice between misogyny and feminism.

The irony is that she is denying the extent to which these women suffered from the misogyny of the time in order to make money. Very few Ripperologists have made any money at all out of their interest in the victims.

[MrBarnett]

My last post crossed with Jon’s.

[MrBarnett]

I did actually mean that I disagree that Rubehold's theories have extensively spread around the World. Or that large numbers of people are aware of her theories. Even those who have read her theories, to most I believe, it will have been in one ear and out the other. Believe it or not, the Whitechapel series of murders doesn't rank very high on most peoples list of interesting subjects.

But we are discussing her misrepresentation of Ripperologists, not her theories about the murders.

I recently communicated with the descendant of an individual who attended one of the WM crime scenes. This person provided me with a photo of the individual in question and one of a possession of his, dated 1888, that has what appears to be bloodstains on it.

In this case, the descendant initiated contact through JTForums. When contact is made in the other direction there’s always the danger that the person you are contacting will clam up as soon as you mention JTR. The public perception of Ripperologists is something that concerns me and many others in the field. If it doesn’t concern you, then bully for you old chap.

[jmenges]

It’s her “war” with Ripperologists that the public finds interesting. That’s why she used the controversy (that she largely manufactured) to sell her book. Her Twitter feed is full of people who brag about buying ‘The Five’ solely as a show of support. Id suggest what she proposes in her book isn’t what those people are interested in, they look at the book as a membership badge.

JM

[Observer]

I haven’t expressed an opinion on that on this thread so far, but don’t let that stop you disagreeing with me.

I did actually mean that I disagree that Rubehold's theories have extensively spread around the World. Or that large numbers of people are aware of her theories. Even those who have read her theories, to most I believe, it will have been in one ear and out the other. Believe it or not, the Whitechapel series of murders doesn't rank very high on most peoples list of interesting subjects.

[MrBarnett]

I think we'll also have to differ with regard to the extent her thoughts on the crimes have had on the World in general.

I haven’t expressed an opinion on that on this thread so far, but don’t let that stop you disagreeing with me.