A new front in the history wars? A new article on 'the five'

[Observer]

Yes, I’m sure. Her attack on Ripperology has been repeatedly parroted in the national press and other mainstream media across the globe.

We’ll have to agree to differ about the rest.

I think we'll also have to differ with regard to the extent her thoughts on the crimes have had on the World in general.

[MrBarnett]

A wide audience? Are you sure?

Do you really believe that the members of the public who may have useful information have actually heard of Rubenhold? Even if they had read what Runenhold has to say on the subject, do you believe it would have such an adverse effect on them that it would result in them not revealing said information? I somehow doubt it. I'd also question whether anyone alive today had any information which would lead to the unmasking of the Whitechapel murderer. By the way, what merits the title "original research"?

Yes, I’m sure. Her attack on Ripperology has been repeatedly parroted in the national press and other mainstream media across the globe.

We’ll have to agree to differ about the rest.

[Observer]

Because those who do often find themselves making contact with members of the public who may have useful information to share. It’s always been a bit awkward having to explain the JTR nature of such enquiries. The sort of publicity that HR has courted portrays Ripperology in an unfavourable light to a wide audience.

A wide audience? Are you sure?

Do you really believe that the members of the public who may have useful information have actually heard of Rubenhold? Even if they had read what Runenhold has to say on the subject, do you believe it would have such an adverse effect on them that it would result in them not revealing said information? I somehow doubt it. I'd also question whether anyone alive today had any information which would lead to the unmasking of the Whitechapel murderer. By the way, what merits the title "original research"?

[Observer]

And what could we possibly do about it that would receive 1/100th of the attention Hallie Rubenhold gets when she’s tweeting about her new designer shoes?

JM

I'll come clean Mr Menges. If My living depended on researching and producing books, and magazines on the subject of Jack the Ripper, and it adversely affected the sale of said publications, then I might be a bit peeved with Ms Rubenhold's input. The thing is the number of individuals who fit into that category is infinitely small. I do hope you realise though that as far as Rubenhold, and her ilk are concerned I couldn't care a fig what she says on the subject. Also, as far as we lesser mortals are concerned, I can't see what all the fuss is with Rubenhold's flawed reasoning when it comes to the subject of the Whitechapel murders. Ignore her.

[MrBarnett]

Also, do I spend much time in doing original research in what respect?

In respect of the subject we are discussing.

[MrBarnett]

Why do you ask?

Because those who do often find themselves making contact with members of the public who may have useful information to share. It’s always been a bit awkward having to explain the JTR nature of such enquiries. The sort of publicity that HR has courted portrays Ripperology in an unfavourable light to a wide audience.

[Observer]

Just to add, as I said earlier is there a lot of stick metered out to "Ripperologists" ? You get the odd Rubenhold coming along now and again., courting controversy to earn a few bob. On the whole I believe the vast majority of people who have an interest in the subject accept, (regardless of depth of knowledge) that it is nothing more than a series of murders committed against a group of women who were indeed prostitutes. The evidence is there. Who cares what Rubenhold says? It's pointless over reacting with regard to her theories.

[jmenges]

And what could we possibly do about it that would receive 1/100th of the attention Hallie Rubenhold gets when she’s tweeting about her new designer shoes?

JM

[Observer]

Matters that have a direct affect on peoples lives, then yes the truth matters. Being labelled a "gory hunter" , or indeed a misogynist, because I take an interest in a late Victorian series of murders, doesn't annoy me at all. Again, why should it?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Of course it’s not a subject thats of life or death importance but truth is important. We can disagree amongst ourselves all we like and it matters little (even the personal digs) but how would other ‘subjects’ react to the same? How many groups can be labelled as misogynistic and be expected to accept it with response? Or as glorying in the sexual murder of women? Why should we accept as a group what we wouldn’t be prepared to accept as individuals?

[Observer]

Author Bruce Robinson has been very vocal about his detesting of 'Ripperologists'. The assumption a lot of these so-called experts hold is that us amateur sleuths are blindsided by every crackpot theory such as the Royal conspiracy or Maybrick's diary. They seem to think we sit at our computers trying to cram pet theories to fit established timelines and suspects. Robinson seems to hold the view that we follow slavishly anything stated by the authorities of the day, simply because they were in authority. I guess he holds that Victorian police were all corrupt and incompetent. In truth, most of the established Ripper authors and history experts offer very little. Here I can cross reference nearly anything I read or see about the case and find a plethora of great information from people who do it for the passion of it. I don't see any agendas, only researchers who seem intent on finding the best and most accurate information possible. A lot of the Ripperologists on here run rings around the haters!

Take no notice of them man! We're discussing a !23 year old unsolvable series of murders, not a cure for cancer.

[jmenges]

Ripperology will be here long after Hallie Rubenhold’s book has left the bargain bin. Although the full story of her dealings with Ripperologists hasn’t been told- the behind the scenes lies and manipulation she engaged in for months prior to the publication of The Five- the fact is Ripperology doesn’t have the bullhorn she has, the self-obsession she has or the financial interest she has to keep this circus going. It should be clear to all of us by now that neither she nor her “public” really give a damn about the Ripper’s victims, they’re drawn to the drama of another “victim”, Halle Rubenhold.

JM

[Kattrup]

at least Sam Flynn and RJ Palmer get mentioned, they must be stoked!

I found the article - hmm, a bit more nuanced than I'd expected. Still too reliant on a narrative-driven approach to history, and failing to see that criticism of HR relies not on the subject matter being unacceptable to old-school ripperologists, but on her details and contextual omissions being factually wrong. Not aided, of course, by her relentless criticism of anyone not accepting her as the saviour of poor neglected women when everything she knows about them has been dug up by ripperologists long before she came along.

[Meet Ze Monster]

Author Bruce Robinson has been very vocal about his detesting of 'Ripperologists'. The assumption a lot of these so-called experts hold is that us amateur sleuths are blindsided by every crackpot theory such as the Royal conspiracy or Maybrick's diary. They seem to think we sit at our computers trying to cram pet theories to fit established timelines and suspects. Robinson seems to hold the view that we follow slavishly anything stated by the authorities of the day, simply because they were in authority. I guess he holds that Victorian police were all corrupt and incompetent. In truth, most of the established Ripper authors and history experts offer very little. Here I can cross reference nearly anything I read or see about the case and find a plethora of great information from people who do it for the passion of it. I don't see any agendas, only researchers who seem intent on finding the best and most accurate information possible. A lot of the Ripperologists on here run rings around the haters!

[Observer]

Also, do I spend much time in doing original research in what respect?