What do we really know about Jack?

[GUT]

G'Day Michael

The only thing we know for sure, by the letter dated Sept 27th, is that the man who spawned that nickname likely killed Polly and Annie.

Really not sure how you reach this conclusion, can you explain. I have to admit still a lot to learn.

[Michael W Richards]

The only thing we know for sure, by the letter dated Sept 27th, is that the man who spawned that nickname likely killed Polly and Annie.

Cheers

[Wickerman]

As I said, a police investigation focus on facts. Schwarz and Hutchinson, both were considered to be telling the truth. Schwarz saw an attack just minutes before Stride was slain. It's not possible to disregard that information. Considering that the description matches Lawendes sighting as well as PC Smith and Marshall's testimony we are pretty safe to say that the ripper was seen. Hutchinson also places the ripper's age at 30.

This is what should base every sane discussion on who the ripper was.

'Peaked cap' is a very generic description for a wide range of headware. Not only were there a variety of different styles of peaked cap, the peaked cap was very common.

Smith, Marshall & Lawende could all have seen different men wearing different peaked caps.

And, I wouldn't be too comfortable that Hutchinson did see the Ripper.

[Abby Normal]

As I said, a police investigation focus on facts. Schwarz and Hutchinson, both were considered to be telling the truth. Schwarz saw an attack just minutes before Stride was slain. It's not possible to disregard that information. Considering that the description matches Lawendes sighting as well as PC Smith and Marshall's testimony we are pretty safe to say that the ripper was seen. Hutchinson also places the ripper's age at 30.

This is what should base every sane discussion on who the ripper was.

Hi K
agree with you (except about hutch). in fact I recently started a thread on the suspect I call Peaked Cap man seen by the witnesses(smith, marshall, Schwartz and Lawende and co. as well as the suspicious man reportedly seen on Church lane) the night of the double event. Undoubtedly this man wearing a peaked cap/sailors cap was the ripper.

[Kuniworth]

G'Day Kuniworth

Can't agree that it's a "fact" that ripper was seen, someone may have been seen, but we don't know if that the person was the ripper. People are killed by someone who was not the last person reported to have been with them, ie they part company and some other person kills them.

As I said, a police investigation focus on facts. Schwarz and Hutchinson, both were considered to be telling the truth. Schwarz saw an attack just minutes before Stride was slain. It's not possible to disregard that information. Considering that the description matches Lawendes sighting as well as PC Smith and Marshall's testimony we are pretty safe to say that the ripper was seen. Hutchinson also places the ripper's age at 30.

This is what should base every sane discussion on who the ripper was.

[GUT]

G'Day Kuniworth

Can't agree that it's a "fact" that ripper was seen, someone may have been seen, but we don't know if that the person was the ripper. People are killed by someone who was not the last person reported to have been with them, ie they part company and some other person kills them.

[Kuniworth]

You can of course speculate a lot about this. But a real police investigation focus on hard facts at the crime scenes and leave speculations to others.

Fact is that the ripper was seen by lots of witnessess. Either witnesses are believed to be telling the truth or the police will disregard that information given by the witness. We know that the police believed schwartz, lawende/levi, hutchinson among others to be tellning the truth. Jack the ripper was a white male, in his 30's.

[miakaal4]

To DM
I agree there mate, I suppose it is because the Facts are not believed or are questioned. The Fact that the same killer murdered Stride and Eddows, is in doubt because there is no real evidence to prove it. Never mind what the people involved at that time thought. The trouble with us modern armchair detectives, is that having been bombarded with thousands of Police/Detective/Law/CSI etc TV shows + Movies + Mags and books, we "Know" the two killings could be separate. We know it could be a woman or a child or a quiet spoken man who dresses like a clown for children. The evidence that was good enough for Abberline, will never be good enough for us.

[Damaso Marte]

The set of Whitechapel Murder facts that everyone (or almost everyone) on this forum agrees to is probably very small. We do not even agree with each other on basic things like time of death for many of the victims.

[Wickerman]

He's dead! Everything else is guesswork.

Yes - he must be now.

But when I first became aware of "Jack" in the early 60s (I didn't start serious reading until c 1972) it was just about possible he was still alive (albeit VERY old) assuming he had been say 18 in 1888.

Phil H

I was being just a tad facetious, but at the same time the point I was making is that we actually know nothing about the Whitechapel murderer(s). I suppose we can accept whoever he was carried a knife with a 6-8" blade, but that does not help.

Even the descriptions given by Lawende, Schwartz, PC Smith, Cox & Hutchinson, not one of them can be confirmed as the murderer. It is quite possible that no-one actually saw the real killer(s).

I have my suspicions as to who he might have been, as do many others, but at the same time I know I cannot argue with any reasonable conviction that my Principal Person of Interest was actually responsible for any of these murders. All we have is guesswork.

Regards, Jon S.

[miakaal4]

Hunter,
Ha ha you my friend are a rascal.

[Hunter]

You make a very good point there Phil H, I think at the time of the ripper many people were not only trembling under the blankets but forming strange images of him in there minds.

Folks may not be trembling in their beds anymore, but they are still forming strange images of him in their mind.

[miakaal4]

You make a very good point there Phil H, I think at the time of the ripper many people were not only trembling under the blankets but forming strange images of him in there minds. This includes the later victims. I say this because I feel that anyone who looked like the Bogieman would be under suspicion. Look at what happened to Pizer. Foreign, dark, Jewish. About three quarters of the men in Whitechapel would fit that description.
How many witnesses added their own fears or prejudices to the information they gave the police I wonder?

[Phil H]

He's dead! Everything else is guesswork.

Yes - he must be now.

But when I first became aware of "Jack" in the early 60s (I didn't start serious reading until c 1972) it was just about possible he was still alive (albeit VERY old) assuming he had been say 18 in 1888.

Finding out about Jack gave me nightmares, my later reading was partially to allay those fears. And as a 12 year old I found the idea that he might still be alive very creepy and fightening.

Phil H

[Wickerman]

What do we really know about Jack?
So is there really anything definate about the killer that can be written in stone?

He's dead!

Everything else is guesswork.