Senior Investigators-Inside Knowledge

[Scott Nelson]

There is a dissertation here by Andrew Morrison...A Mystery Play, Police opinions on Jack the Ripper...here is a snippet...

"[I]Henry Smith stated that he did not know who the murderer was and Abberline was only of the opinion that Chapman was the killer."

Smith never specifically said that he didn't know who the murderer was.

[The Baron]

Sure, its also 'official' that Schwartz testified at the inquest, Anderson & Warren both said so, yet they are both equally wrong.
So, how do you know Anderson was not wrong with his who "had a good view"?

Trying to make an illusional point, aren't you

As if there was no Schwartz and no testimony of him

Or you may have full knowledge of the inquest and all other police papers related to it.

There WAS Scwartz, he testified.

There WAS a Witness-Suspect identification.

You don't know 1/100 of what Anderson and Swanson knew.

A +130 researcher who favours Druitt as a suspect want to wash an official identification of a prime suspect from the book!



The Baron

[mpriestnall]

FYI

Adam Wood and Richard Jones discuss the marginalia, amongst other things, here:

"Swanson - The Life And Times Of A Victorian Detective. An Interview With Adam Wood."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQQCQW0F1KU

[Michael W Richards]

That's my point. They claim an identification (of sorts) took place. I don't believe either Anderson or Swanson were liars, nor did they confuse the biggest case they ever worked on with another. It doesn't make sense. That doesn't mean that "Kosminski" was the murderer or that the officers didn't bring their own prejudices into play.

Both Anderson and Swanson were in the business of deceit Harry. Intelligence, Counter Intelligence, Espionage, Terrorism, Double agents, plots that were known and not discussed with those threatened by them...including HRM...their whole professional existence at that time was about keeping information secret. Using lies, ommissions, unofficial comments.....this whole mess about who thought what about the Ripper cases to me smacks of intentional disinformation. Which is a staple within National Security Departments.

There is a dissertation here by Andrew Morrison...A Mystery Play, Police opinions on Jack the Ripper...here is a snippet...

"Henry Smith stated that he did not know who the murderer was and Abberline was only of the opinion that Chapman was the killer. Swanson does not say if he thought Kosminski was guilty only that he was the suspect Anderson was writing about. Macnaghten is not certain and neither is Littlechild. Of all the policemen mentioned only Anderson states that the Ripper's identity was know beyond all doubt. All the others talk of "a very likely suspect" or "good reason to suspect" and do not claim that the killer's identity was definitely known. However, Anderson was almost certainly writing about Kosminski, Swanson definetly was and assumes that's who Anderson meant, Macnaghten mentioned Kosminski along with Ostrog and Druitt and Sagar wrote about somebody that sounds a lot like Kosminski. Even Abberline in naming George Chapman ( S A Kolowski) could have been referring to the same person ie a suspect with a K...ski name."

The thing about Abberline and his belief in Chapman is that it was mentioned in the same year he was executed...1903...before that he claimed people only "thought" they knew. Suddenly he has an epiphany...just as the suspect cannot be tried anymore?

[Michael W Richards]

Funny.. Why should I, it is offecial, No less than Sir Anderson and Swanson stated that.


Who he was is academic.



The Baron

Was Offecial used as a derivative of feces?

[rjpalmer]

Sure, its also 'official' that Schwartz testified at the inquest, Anderson & Warren both said so, yet they are both equally wrong.

So, how do you know Anderson was not wrong with his who "had a good view"?

Anderson's myth of the super witness was a masterstroke, because with one sweep it dismissed all other witnesses as irrelevant. All other potential 'sightings' of the Ripper and all rival theories could be sent to the shredder, with no need to even alert the defense.

But one only needs to read the MEPO files to realize that even Swanson had no clear idea of who saw what. There were half a dozen different potential witnesses and they didn't appear to be describing the same man. No one knew who or what or how much faith to place in any of them. Ergo, Macnaghten is honest enough to admit that 'no one ever saw the Whitechapel Murderer,' meaning no one indisputably saw the Whitechapel Murderer. He leaves the door open, while Anderson slams it shut. Two different types of men and two different types of thinker.

[Wickerman]

Funny.. Why should I, it is offecial, No less than Sir Anderson and Swanson stated that.


Who he was is academic.



The Baron

Sure, its also 'official' that Schwartz testified at the inquest, Anderson & Warren both said so, yet they are both equally wrong.
So, how do you know Anderson was not wrong with his who "had a good view"?

[Harry D]

...undiscovered murders are rare in London, and the "Jack-the-Ripper" crimes are not in that category...I will merely add that the only person who had ever had a good view of the murderer unhesitatingly identified the suspect the instant he was confronted with him; but he refused to give evidence against him...In saying that he was a Polish Jew I am merely stating a definitely ascertained fact"


The Baron

That's my point. They claim an identification (of sorts) took place. I don't believe either Anderson or Swanson were liars, nor did they confuse the biggest case they ever worked on with another. It doesn't make sense. That doesn't mean that "Kosminski" was the murderer or that the officers didn't bring their own prejudices into play.

[rjpalmer]

Tooting Bec Hospital was an Infirmary for Aged Imbeciles, with ward accommodation and 18 single rooms for 288 males.

So I've booked us separate en suite rooms.

Ha, ha! Thanks, Simon. I hope the suites come padded! And you can have my daily ration of apple sauce.

'M. A. B.' might be the 'Metropolitan Asylums Board' (demonstrating inside knowledge by the maginalienist?), but I like your answer better! Cheers, RP


http://www.workhouses.org.uk/MAB/


'Marginalienist': I feel clever.

[The Baron]

Can you prove who "had a good view" was?
Nobody else has been able to, so how can you claim this is true?

Funny.. Why should I, it is offecial, No less than Sir Anderson and Swanson stated that.


Who he was is academic.



The Baron

[Simon Wood]

The Colney Hatch fire took place in January 1903, and only affected the female inmates.

The Times, 28th January 1903 -



Simon

[Michael W Richards]

Hi RJ,

MAB was Queen of all the Fairies. I don't know if this is a clue.

Tooting Bec Hospital was an Infirmary for Aged Imbeciles, with ward accommodation and 18 single rooms for 288 males.

So I've booked us separate en suite rooms.

In 1903 at Colney Hatch Asylum the temporary wooden block built in 1896 burned down. Fifty one people died in what would be called the worst disaster in English asylum history.

As a consequence, some patients from Colney Hatch Asylum had to be temporarily accommodated at Tooting Bec.

Stay safe.

Simon

Ola amigo,

Would the records on which patients were transferred there in 03 still be around anywhere? I suppose RJ's contention its a National Archives file makes it the only spot it might be. I found it interesting this 1903 timing..the same year Chapman was hanged.

[Simon Wood]

Hi RJ,

MAB was Queen of all the Fairies. I don't know if this is a clue.

Tooting Bec Hospital was an Infirmary for Aged Imbeciles, with ward accommodation and 18 single rooms for 288 males.

So I've booked us separate en suite rooms.

In 1903 at Colney Hatch Asylum the temporary wooden block built in 1896 burned down. Fifty one people died in what would be called the worst disaster in English asylum history.

As a consequence, some patients from Colney Hatch Asylum had to be temporarily accommodated at Tooting Bec.

Stay safe.

Simon

[Wickerman]

This is literally wrong on all aspects I am afraid.

Likely you have not been following the Druitt saga. As you know the earliest dates suggested to refer to Kozminski are 1890/91 and his removal to Mile end Workhouse. As opposed to the Farquharson drama suggested to refer to Druitt which began in 1889.
In modern times Kozminski had been forgotten and Colin Wilson revived Druitt as the first 'named' viable suspect, but this you do know.
Therefore it is, literally correct.

I choose to go with Anderson and Swanson on this, other officers differ?! That is to be expected, we don't have a case closed scenario here, nor the word prime suspect means a conviction. The only one who had ever a good view of the murderer without hesitation identified him! Can you proove otherwise ?!

Can you prove who "had a good view" was?
Nobody else has been able to, so how can you claim this is true?

[rjpalmer]

Hello Simon.

I'm glad to see you're on the mend.

In regards to solutions scribbled in the margins of books, you've probably come across this, but Colin Wilson informs us that the following note was found in a library in Kent, jotted inside a copy of Robin Odell's Jack the Ripper in Fact and Fiction (1970):

"Jack the Ripper died at Tooting Beck Hospital [sic], Ward G III." The note is signed 'M. A. B.', all written in an appropriately red ink.

No further information is given.

A quick look shows that Tooting Bec opened in 1903, and its records are deposited in the National Archives. A studious person with a lot of time on their hands could possibly identify the 'suspect,' if they existed, though I 'suspect' the note may well date to 1 April of some undisclosed year.

--For what it's worth.

P.S. Below is Tooting Bec Hospital, showing an unidentified woman, wistfully staring up at what might be the Ripper's window.