Assignation of Victims to a single killer

[lynn cates]

the whys and the wherefores

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"Kidney and Stride had lived just east of the Berner St area, in Devonshire Street. So, it`s possible they were still familiar with the area, people and public houses."

Quite. But if Michael were BS man, whence was he coming? Where was he going? Was it a chance meeting?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

All except . . .

Hello David. Thanks.

"But it happened, Lynn - except for the mutilations."

As did other knife killings--except for the mutilations.

"Schwartz and Pipeman had left the scene when Liz was killed."

If the IS story is true. Do we have any corroboration for that?

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

If he were the lone sexual serial killer in whom so many believe, and he were looking for a victim, why not cosy up to Liz, speak affably, check for witnesses, enter the yard, go behind the gate, kill Liz, mutilate, exit?
LC

But it happened, Lynn - except for the mutilations. Schwartz and Pipeman had left the scene when Liz was killed.

[Jon Guy]

Hi Lynn

Thanks. If that was "Brown" I do indeed.

Here`s the details from The Old Bailey trial. This " third" throat cut murder seems to have raised it`s head a few times recently- not quite sure of it`s relevance myself.

http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18881022-name-174&div=t18881022-955#highlight

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Phil H,

You're missing the point.

Kidney having been Stride's killer negates the concept of Jack the Ripper, Saucy Jacky and the double-event.

Regards,

Simon

Exacty !

[Phil H]

When you combine the direction of BS man (north to south),

Well, if you will try to build sand castles on the basis of Schwartz, what do you expect?

Phil H

[Jon Guy]

Hi Lynn

When you combine the direction of BS man (north to south), along with the hour, I find many difficulties. Kidney worked the docks and, if he were getting off work, he should be headed north from south.

Kidney and Stride had lived just east of the Berner St area, in Devonshire Street. So, it`s possible they were still familiar with the area, people and public houses.

[lynn cates]

direction

Hello Phil. Thanks.

Indeed, I tried long ago to work them out. No success.

When you combine the direction of BS man (north to south), along with the hour, I find many difficulties. Kidney worked the docks and, if he were getting off work, he should be headed north from south.

Cheers.
LC

[Phil H]

Besides, how did he run into Liz?

Possibilities include:

a) he followed her;

b) a friend/acquaintance tipped him off;

c) he bumped into her by accident.

There are further combinations of these, but you are big enough to work those out for yourself.

Phil H

[RivkahChaya]

I could totally see someone trying to take a uterus and failing, but succeeding at that is really hard. It is not visible through an abdominal opening. It is below the pubic arch, out of sight, under the intestines, behind the bladder, is about the size and appearance of an uninflated balloon, and looks nothing like the pictures in the anatomy books.

Hmmm. To veer off a little, if the person who killed at least Nichols and Chapman was after uteri (not to sell them to medical schools, but for some paraphilic reason), that might explain why he targeted middle aged women. They are more likely to have had a child, and more likely to have developed uterine fibroids, which would make the uterus much easier to find by touch. Once a woman has had a child, it never goes back to its pre-pregnancy size. However, the victims, while middle-aged, were just young enough not to be post-menopausal, or not long post-menopausal; a woman long past menopause will have a small uterus, because it shrinks from the loss of blood flow once it stops having regular endometrial cycles.

Now, I'm not sure how a serial killer would come to know this, other than by trial and error, but since it requires the assumption that he knows what a uterus looks like, he's probably read some medical textbooks. That doesn't make him a doctor, or even a failed medical student, but it does make him literate, which is unusual for the East End at the time. I mean, I know there was basic literacy, but a medical text requires something more than just a few years of school, or your mother teaching you your letters so you can read labels on things.

[lynn cates]

domestic

Hello Trevor. But "domestic" does not entail Kidney.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Not Kidney, old bean.

Hello Phil. But look closely at Kidney's inquest testimony. Do you think him intellectually adroit enough to kill and conceal?

Besides, how did he run into Liz?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Brown

Hello Jon. Thanks. If that was "Brown" I do indeed. As I said, coincidences do happen.

Cheers.
LC

[RivkahChaya]

So Israel schwartz (sp)..was fairly easily identifiable as a jew?...would that be dress and appearance?...
Sorry Phil...thanks for your answer...and apologies if I'm stating what may be obvious to the more knowledgeable on the subject
Andy

If he wore a kippah, wide brimmed hat, sometimes fur-trimmed, full beard with peyos (side locks of hair), and tzitzis (fringes), then yes, he was very identifiable. Also, Jews who had immigrated to England from Poland or Russia tended to wear long coats with fur collars, that were a bit of overkill in milder winters in England, but those were the coats they had, and new coats, just for the sake of blending in, which many did not want to do, seemed like a waste of money.

What does anyone think of the idea that one person killed Nichols and Chapman, and another killed Eddowes and Kelly? This had occurred to me before, and as I was reading about rigor mortis just recently, it occurred to me that one reason Eddowes facial mutilations looked the way they did was that the killer was trying to do something specific, but he left the facial mutilations to last (the reason not much blood is present), not realizing that rigor mortis begins in the face, and may have found the face very difficult to cut. He may have wanted to cut off the whole ear, but couldn't, because he couldn't cut through the muscles on the side of the head, so he cut the tips, which is just skin and cartilage. Mutilating the abdomen wouldn't be so difficult, because rigor mortis sets in there later, and once he gets through the outer muscles, muscle tissue isn't that much of a problem.

If he learned from his mistake, he would have gone for Kelly's face first, right after killing her. The reason that there's a funny shape to her chin could be because rigor was happening as he was cutting, and he was holding her chin in one hand.

Some of those are brand new ideas I haven't really thought through, and so there may be a major problem that hasn't occurred to me. Feel free to point it out.

[Phil H]

Kidney having been Stride's killer negates the concept of Jack the Ripper, Saucy Jacky and the double-event.

No, I took the point, and raised it one no trump!!

I gave up - for personal theorising purposes - the idea of a single serial killer, some years ago. That model had got us nowhere.

I was quite shocked when I read books like (I think, AP Wolf's) and others to be deprived of a single traditional "Jack" but the more i thought about it the more the concept grew.

Today, I see (though I balance a number of ideas in my head) perhaps one killer (stereotypical "Jack" as the killer of Nichols, Chapman and maybe Eddowes. I see Stride as a coincidental killing by Kidney - and Kelly as a crime of passion by an intimate - Barnett, Fleming or someone similar. McKenzie COULD just be a final attempt by a weakened "Jack" and Eddowes might be by a different hand completely (Fenian?) but I won't quibble about that.

Kidney may well have known - played on - the fact that "Jack" did not exist as the police and public opinion depicted him, but who was kidney going to tell?

I've stated all this before many times, but you seemed surprised that I was not constipated on a single killer theory - so I have stated it again.

Phil H