Alternative Ripperology: Questioning the Whitechapel Murders by David M. Radka 2004

[Sam Flynn]

So you like the Secret of Prisoner 1167. I almost bought it off ebay, but held back until I could find out more about it. I'll take a chance on it with your recommendation.

I'll second (or third) that recommendation. It's a well-written book with, as Glenn pointed out, some intelligent commentary thrown in for good measure. Even if James Kelly is not our man - which is very unlikely IMO - his story was an interesting one to say the least, and it is compellingly recounted by James Tully.

BTW, outside of Sugden, Evans, Begg (etc) you really can't go far wrong with Hutchinson & Clack for a top-notch narrative and pictorial overview of the Ripper case.

[Celesta]

Okay, my five "must reads" would be.

"Ultimate Sourcebook" by Skinner and Evans
"The Facts" by Begg
"Letters From Hell" by Skinner and Evans
"Scotland Yard Investigates" by Evans and Rumbelow
"Secret of Prisoner 1167" by Tully

Another couple of general books that are excellent though suffer from being a little outdate (but are very readable) are:

"The Complete Jack the Ripper" by Rumbelow
"JtR, Summing Up And Verdict" by Wilson and Odell

You'll notice that Sugden isn't on my list, but that's only because the only version I have is an e-book, and I just find it so hard to read that medium that I haven't made it all the way through yet. I would still recommend it based on what I have read, and what I've heard about it.

Hi Mags,

So you like the Secret of Prisoner 1167. I almost bought it off ebay, but held back until I could find out more about it. I'll take a chance on it with your recommendation. I got my Sugden off of ebay, too. Good purchase and it was only $4.99. I've never seen the Wilson & Odell. I'll also take a second look at Letters from Hell.

Are you familiar with East End Chronicles by Glinnert? I got that cheaply. Haven't gotten up to JTR's era though, so I can't report on that.

This is a nice thread, getting to learn what everyone values as a resource.

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

Has anyone mentioned the excellent "Letters from Hell" yet?
[...]
Both Paley and Tully's books are good examples of this.

Well, I think the reason for Letters From Hell is being left out here (at least by myself) is not because it isn't an excellent book (in fact, I think it is one of the best) but because we've been talking about books here dealing with the case on a general level. Letters From Hell is very much a specialist book, with its main focus on the letters and other communications - in that respect it may not be an ideal introductory to the case.

As for Tully's book, I definitely agree. If we take away the suspect-oriented stuff in his book, it is one of the very best accounts of the whole case that I have ever read, with ingenious interpretations of what's been said at the inquests, with a lot of factual accuracy, great research and loads of humour. He's an excellent writer and his inspiring language captures you from page one (in contrast to Sugden and Begg). Highly recommmended, especially for those who wants an intelligent basic account of the Ripper case.

All the best

[bolo]

Glenn,

Scotland Yard Investigates is an excellent choice for beginners and pros alike, I really love that book. I agree that the sheer number of facts mixed with a wealth of background info in Begg's and Sugden's books may be a bit disheartening at first but a keen newbie may soon find out that it's next to impossible to get a feeling for the case without a at least a concise overview on the political and social conditions of the late Victorian period, specially in the East End but also of the industrialized society in general.

In this light, abridged editions of Henry Mayhew's London Labour and the London Poor and Charles Booth's Life and Labour of the People of London would make better introductory reading than some more case-oriented books but I guess this would slightly break the mould...

[Magpie]

Okay, my five "must reads" would be.

"Ultimate Sourcebook" by Skinner and Evans
"The Facts" by Begg
"Letters From Hell" by Skinner and Evans
"Scotland Yard Investigates" by Evans and Rumbelow
"Secret of Prisoner 1167" by Tully

Another couple of general books that are excellent though suffer from being a little outdate (but are very readable) are:

"The Complete Jack the Ripper" by Rumbelow
"JtR, Summing Up And Verdict" by Wilson and Odell

You'll notice that Sugden isn't on my list, but that's only because the only version I have is an e-book, and I just find it so hard to read that medium that I haven't made it all the way through yet. I would still recommend it based on what I have read, and what I've heard about it.

[Magpie]

Has anyone mentioned the excellent "Letters from Hell" yet?


I think that suspect books can serve a purpose, provided you think of the suspect as a sort of narrative device, rather than the focus.

That is, take the suspect himself with a large grain of salt, but not as the most useful or important part of the work (and keep in mind that the choice of a suspect will inevitably affect the direction of both the research and the conclusions).

Both Paley and Tully's books are good examples of this.

[Monty]

Techno,

Thanks for all the suggestions. I must say that the dissertation by David Radka was fascinating reading and a totally refreshing view on the murders. Maybe I could ask people to list their 5 favourite/most reliable books on the subject of the Whitechapel murders. I'm assuming the first 3 would probably be:

1 - The Complete History by Philip Sugden
2 - The Ultimate Companion (Sourcebook) by Evens & Skinner
3 - The Facts by Paul Begg

I'd like to get as much reliable info as quickly as possible with out descending into Sickert/diary nonsense. Cheers.

You learn fast our young Padwan.

If you are looking for a 'Starter Pack' then I would like to throw in William Fishmans works.

To get a grip of the context of these crimes, why they 'exploded' in both the area and press, why they impacted heavily upon the political and social scenes, then you must understand what the area was like to live in during that period.

Cheers

Monty

[CitizenX]

For in depth factual content you couldn't go far wrong with any of the Sugden, Evans or Rumbelows tomes.

As an easy to read introduction to the case I would suggest, The Crimes Of Jack the Ripper by Paul Roland.

I agree with Jenni, I too was quite surprised how well written the introduction of the case was in Philip and Robs book.

Kevin

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

In my opinion, The Facts by Paul Begg and Philip Sugden's Complete History complement each other quite nicely and make a good and affordable "starter pack" for a beginner. The facts are all (well, most of them) there, as well as excellent bibliographies and references that provide the reader with countless pointers for further research. Technically I prefer Sugden's book for reference purposes over Begg's while the latter is more readable, a good example being the most interesting first chapter "A Background to the Whitechapel Murders".

For the absolute beginner, I would rather recommend Evans' and Skinner's Scotland Yard Investigates, since it doesn't contain all that massive bunk of facts and additional information as can be found in Sugden's and begg's books.

Scotland Yard Investigates is more fresh and up to date, and all the basic factss you need to know as a first starter are there - it is also stripped of all nonsense and misconceptions that surround the case. Thanks to all the large number of illustrations it also feeds the reader with an further interest in the subject and hopefully a lust to know more.
If you as a beginner start out with this book you simply can't go wrong.

After that, however, it could be a good idea to go more in depth and continue with the more demanding titles like Sugden or Begg, where you can study more specified source references and detailed facts.
Or even better: to turn to The Ultimate Sourcebook/Companion.
So I wouldn't necessarily recommend either Sugden or Begg for a new beginner simply because they contain too much information.

All the best

[Jenni Shelden]

Dan,

yeah interesting point, what do you think that it means?

Jenni

[bolo]

My approach is to file all the Knights, Fullers and Cornwells (and some suspect-oriented authors) under "fiction until further notice" and that's that. However, I try not to be too closed-minded about it, for sometimes even a false lead (even a deliberate one) can unearth interesting information or at least make a great conversation piece for the casebook gang.

[technohead]

And that Bolo is exactly what I was asking for in my original posting. It is great to see that everyone has their own ideas of what is good/bad, dry/wet?, good read/bad read etc its what makes the world go round at the end of the day!

As far as the diary goes, I asked my initial question after looking at the reviews of the first diary book (can't remember what its called) on Amazon. All the reviews were totally decided on the concept that the book proved Maybrick was the Ripper! If you want a good laugh check them out.

As far as Radka and his theory, I found the idea of wounds as tailor 'code' hilarious which made it so readable! I personally think that Jack The Ripper only exsisted as a signature on the many fake letters at the time and the Whitechapel murders were comitted by an insane 19th centuary reformist who wanted to bring focus to the plight of the poor in Whitechapel!!!

[bolo]

In my opinion, The Facts by Paul Begg and Philip Sugden's Complete History complement each other quite nicely and make a good and affordable "starter pack" for a beginner. The facts are all (well, most of them) there, as well as excellent bibliographies and references that provide the reader with countless pointers for further research. Technically I prefer Sugden's book for reference purposes over Begg's while the latter is more readable, a good example being the most interesting first chapter "A Background to the Whitechapel Murders".

[Dan Norder]

The short overview of Radka's theory is that the guy actually claimed straight out to be smarter than Einstein and used a lot of words he didn't understand to try to fool other people into thinking it was true. The best example of his brand of theorizing is that he insisted that the mutilations on Eddowes' face were actually tailor's marks which spelled out a specific word by word message via each individual wound... this despite being forced to admit later that he didn't ever actually find any tailor's marks that looked like that or that meant that in any reference work or source but that he HAD to be right ("evidence schmevidence" as he said) because he was a genius and everyone who failed to accept that was an idiot.

(It's strange how we have a bunch of new accounts showing up over the last few days to suddenly try to start discussions on Radka's theory, the Maybrick diary, astrology and so forth...)

[Celesta]

Greetings to all,

I've been lurking about reading the forum posts for quite some time, but this is my first time posting, so be kind to the newbie!

I found Radka's work a interesting attempt to use a different way of thinking to theorize about the Ripper. Although his arguments are well supported (in most cases), I do not believe his theory to be the final solution, nor even the best theory presented. I find it very thought provoking. After all, isn't that really what Ripperology, in the absence of of conclusive evidence, really about - pitting our minds and theories against a very complex and currently insolvable mystery?

Hi DB, Welcome aboard the boards. I like the ones that provoke me to think along new lines. One of the later books I read was Rubelow's Complete JTR even though it is an older book. I loved that book. There were things in there that I had not come across before, and I really enjoyed hearing about his early days of trying to salvage the JTR records. I read that after JTR: Scotland Yd Investigates, and I was surprised at finding new things to pour over. I often wonder if there is a book just in his attempt to assemble all the records. There was probably other historic stuff that he salvaged, as well.

Before reading JTR: Scotland Yard Investigates, I had the wrong picture of Chief Commissioner Warren. The coverage of Warren is really good in that book, as I'm sure you know.

Best,

Celesta