Who is this "notorious woman"?

[DRoy]

Wow! The research that you all do truly is amazing! Thanks so much!

If it is indeed a picture of Dr. Barnardo, wouldn't the US press know that? They got the story and the picture/drawing from someone and I'm assuming it came from London. Wouldn't Dr. Barnardo be recognized by whomever it was that shared all this information?

Cheers
DRoy

[Rob Clack]

70 and 72 Oxford Street must be what is now Stepney Way - it was renamed in 1938 but kept the same street numbers.
The Artichoke Pub (now closed) is at 91 Stepney Way - on the corner with Sidney Street. I used to go in their quite often in the 1980s
The Oxford Arms (now demolished) was a tiny pub at 43 Stepney Way - behind the Post Office on Whitechapel Road. It could literally only hold about six customers.
So I would place 70-72 on the south side of Oxford Street just before the junction with Sidney Street (i.e. west of Sidney Street).

According to the directories, 70 and 72 were located here.
The street ran odds and evens and while 70 and 72 are not listed themselves, probably they were just dwellings. 66 and 68 were listed and they were on the East and West corner of Russell Street.



Rob

[Lechmere]

70 and 72 Oxford Street must be what is now Stepney Way - it was renamed in 1938 but kept the same street numbers.
The Artichoke Pub (now closed) is at 91 Stepney Way - on the corner with Sidney Street. I used to go in their quite often in the 1980s
The Oxford Arms (now demolished) was a tiny pub at 43 Stepney Way - behind the Post Office on Whitechapel Road. It could literally only hold about six customers.
So I would place 70-72 on the south side of Oxford Street just before the junction with Sidney Street (i.e. west of Sidney Street).

[Debra A]

Hi Debs,

Interesting! I'll send you a PM.

Regards, Bridewell.

Hi Colin,
Thanks, got the PM, and thanks for taking the time to look at the Thomas and Ann Morriss in the census. I've explained things a little more in my reply.

[Debra A]

A few of Dr. Barnardo's Homes for boys and girls were on Commercial Road, up Commercial Road from where Stride was found murdered and of course in Whitechapel.

http://www.goldonian.org/photos/phot..._homes_eng.htm

There's no doubt he was in the area and personally involved to some extent by visiting the mortuary to see Stride's body.

It would be very interesting to try and discover the circumstances under which the US newspaper printed a sketch of Barnardo and captioned it 'latest photograph of the Ripper'.

[Beowulf]

Thanks. Five years more off than on!
Your recognising the picture as Dr. Barnado was brilliant and has got me very curious now. Dr.Barnado viewed Elizabeth Stride's body at the mortuary and claimed she had been amongst a group of women he talked to at a lodging house so he was 'in the thick of things' to some extent.
Maybe Barnado's likeness was sketched for some sort of prank seeing as the illustration appeared in the US press? It's all very odd and very intriguing.

A few of Dr. Barnardo's Homes for boys and girls were on Commercial Road, up Commercial Road from where Stride was found murdered and of course in Whitechapel.

http://www.goldonian.org/photos/photo_archive_homes/old_homes_eng.htm

[Bridewell]

LOL. I wanted you to do it from scratch, Colin. Not through being mean, just that I started from a marriage and worked through the census entries like that,I was satisfied I had the right people in some census entries but unsure about what happened in 1881 and wanted someone to repeat the exercise and see if they got the same results.
What if I said Ann Morriss was originally Ann Tabram...would that help?

Hi Debs,

Interesting! I'll send you a PM.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Beowulf]

Thanks. Five years more off than on!
Your recognising the picture as Dr. Barnado was brilliant and has got me very curious now. Dr.Barnado viewed Elizabeth Stride's body at the mortuary and claimed she had been amongst a group of women he talked to at a lodging house so he was 'in the thick of things' to some extent.
seeing as the illustration appeared in the US press? It's all very odd and very intriguing.

Oh my god!

[Debra A]

Thanks for that! In the immortal words of Captain Lawrence Oates....

"I am just going outside and may be some time!"

Regards, Bridewell.

I have every faith you will get on the right path straight away, Colin! Take note of the spelling of Morriss, that may help.

[Bridewell]

LOL. I wanted you to do it from scratch, Colin. Not through being mean, just that I started from a marriage and worked through the census entries like that,I was satisfied I had the right people in some census entries but unsure about what happened in 1881 and wanted someone to repeat the exercise and see if they got the same results.
What if I said Ann Morriss was originally Ann Tabram...would that help?

Thanks for that! In the immortal words of Captain Lawrence Oates....

"I am just going outside and may be some time!"

Regards, Bridewell.

[Debra A]

Hi Debs,

There are several possibilities. Any ideas on ages or place of birth?

Regards, Bridewell.

LOL. I wanted you to do it from scratch, Colin. Not through being mean, just that I started from a marriage and worked through the census entries like that,I was satisfied I had the right people in some census entries but unsure about what happened in 1881 and wanted someone to repeat the exercise and see if they got the same results.
What if I said Ann Morriss was originally Ann Tabram...would that help?

[Bridewell]

I wonder if someone else would like to locate Thomas and Ann Morris (relatives of Martha Tabram and Ann was witness ather inquest) in the 1881 census. I would be interested in their results.

Hi Debs,

There are several possibilities. Any ideas on ages or place of birth? Occupation perhaps?

Regards, Bridewell.

[Debra A]

Five years of looking! My goodness, I'm impressed with the effort you make and I am grateful for it as well. The story is like grains of sand slipping through the hands of time, but thankfully you and a few others (Rob Clack for one) do such hard work and bring light to these things where light can be let in.

Thank you for that

Thanks. Five years more off than on!
Your recognising the picture as Dr. Barnado was brilliant and has got me very curious now. Dr.Barnado viewed Elizabeth Stride's body at the mortuary and claimed she had been amongst a group of women he talked to at a lodging house so he was 'in the thick of things' to some extent.
Maybe Barnado's likeness was sketched for some sort of prank seeing as the illustration appeared in the US press? It's all very odd and very intriguing.

[Beowulf]

This is why Bella was originally being researched as the answer to these questions was (and still as far as I am aware) unknown.

Ever since I found out that Bella Freeman's real name was Bella Poolman, I, along with the help of Rob Clack, have been researching all her known addresses from her will, her census entries, electoral rolls, and recently land tax books and also the records of her only son.

None of her addresses or property associated with her had any known JTR links although she was in the heart of Spitalfields/Whitechapel and not just in the West End as assumed by others.

I posted to this thread the other day just to say that after 5 years of looking for a connection I had accidentally discovered a very tenuous link between Bella and Martha Tabram through the husband of Martha's sister in law lodging with Bella's son in 1881 and thought it may be worth following up in case Martha Tabram was known to Bella Freeman. Martha used to pester Ann and Thomas Morriss for money apparently so she wasn't a stranger to them by all accounts.

...anyway.

Five years of looking! My goodness, I'm impressed with the effort you make and I am grateful for it as well. The story is like grains of sand slipping through the hands of time, but thankfully you and a few others (Rob Clack for one) do such hard work and bring light to these things where light can be let in.

Thank you for that

[Debra A]

I don't know the story of Bella, is it out there? I know the few snipets put on here that she ran a brothel. What was the incident that led her to believe the drawing (claimed to be a photograph, strangely enough) of the man was JTR. Something obviously convinced her strongly.

This is why Bella was originally being researched as the answer to these questions was (and still as far as I am aware) unknown.

Ever since I found out that Bella Freeman's real name was Bella Poolman, I, along with the help of Rob Clack, have been researching all her known addresses from her will, her census entries, electoral rolls, and recently land tax books and also the records of her only son.

None of her addresses or property associated with her had any known JTR links although she was in the heart of Spitalfields/Whitechapel and not just in the West End as assumed by others.

I posted to this thread the other day just to say that after 5 years of looking for a connection I had accidentally discovered a very tenuous link between Bella and Martha Tabram through the husband of Martha's sister in law lodging with Bella's son in 1881 and thought it may be worth following up in case Martha Tabram was known to Bella Freeman. Martha used to pester Ann and Thomas Morriss for money apparently so she wasn't a stranger to them by all accounts.

...anyway.