H.H. Holmes- Is this a new suspect.

[John Wheat]

HH Holmes the Ripper I doubt it. Another man labelled as a Ripper suspect to make a few bucks.

[vitularia]

Interesting that Jeff Mudgett says he's a direct descendant of Herman Mudgett (aka H.H. Holmes), because I thought Holmes had only one child, a daughter named Lucy.

Herman Mudgett married Clara A. Lovering on 4 Jul 1878 in Alton, Belknap, New Hampshire [Ancestry.com, All New Hampshire, Marriage Records Index, 1637-1947] and they had a son Robert L. Mudgett. An entry in the same index for a 1904 marriage for Robert L. Mudgett to Alexandra Gilbert gives his parents as Herman W. Mudgett and Clara A. Lovering.

Robert and Alexandra had a son, Bertram Harold Mudgett, born 1 May 1905, who died in San Louis Obispo, California 13 Jul 1989 and I believe Jeff is descended through that line. [Ancestry.com, All California, Death Index, 1940-1997].

Lucy, to the best of my knowledge, has no living descendants.

[Archaic]

Hi Jeff.

Yes, I've read Larson's book; thank you. There was a good documentary made of it, I believe by PBS. I posted the link a couple of years ago on one of the Holmes threads.

Here's a 2003 NPR radio interview with Erik Larson about his book 'Devil In the White City': http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=1221345

Best regards,
Archaic

[Mayerling]

Hi Alex, and welcome to Casebook!

Interesting that Jeff Mudgett says he's a direct descendant of Herman Mudgett (aka H.H. Holmes), because I thought Holmes had only one child, a daughter named Lucy.
Lucy and her mother Myrta Belknap both used the last name "Holmes", not "Mudgett". After H.H. Holmes was revealed to be Herman Mudgett and hung for his crimes, it's easy to see why Myrta and Lucy would continue to use the much more common last name of "Holmes" in order to escape public attention.

Here's a web-page showing Lucy's passport info in 1918, when she went to Europe to do "war work": http://chicagogenealogy.blogspot.com...te-holmes.html

Even if Jeff Mudgett is a descendant, being descended in the female line I would expect him to have a different surname. Perhaps after doing his genealogical research he changed his own surname to his great-great-grandfather's original surname of "Mudgett"?

As for H.H. Holmes being Jack the Ripper, their respective crimes bear very little resemblance to each other; in fact they are quite different. And as Jon and Mike pointed out, in 1888 Holmes was busy working out his own sick fantasies in Chicago.

I'm not sure why anybody, least of all a descendant, would even want to try to claim Holmes was also the Ripper. Holmes is a fascinating case study all by himself, and much of his life and his crimes are still a mystery. I'd be more interested in reading a book that probed those mysteries, and told us how Holmes' wife and daughter dealt with their knowledge of his depravity. For instance, did his daughter even know the notorious killer was her father? Were stories passed down in the family? What about in the Mudgett side of the family? How did they react when they learned of the crimes?

Best regards,
Archaic

Hi Archaic,

If you are unaware there is (recently) Eric Larson's THE DEVIL IN THE WHITE CITY (a best seller) dealing with three interweaved stories (Holmes and his evil "castle" and victims, the World's Columbian Exposition of 1892-1893 - a World's Fair with great effects on architecture and society, and a background that aided Holmes' murder spree, and the assassination of Mr. Carter Harrison (Senior) who was the Mayor of Chicago, by a nut job named Eugene Pendergast. There was also David Franke's THE TORTURE DOCTOR some thirty years or so ago. There is a more recent one whose title I cannot recall.

Also one author of fiction suggested Holmes was the Ripper. The author of PSYCHO, Robert Bloch, wrote a book AMERICAN GOTHIC, in which the central figure (who uses an alliteration name wth "G"s not "H"s) is being investigated by a female as the actual Jack the Ripper.

Jeff

[Archaic]

Hi Alex, and welcome to Casebook!

Interesting that Jeff Mudgett says he's a direct descendant of Herman Mudgett (aka H.H. Holmes), because I thought Holmes had only one child, a daughter named Lucy.
Lucy and her mother Myrta Belknap both used the last name "Holmes", not "Mudgett". After H.H. Holmes was revealed to be Herman Mudgett and hung for his crimes, it's easy to see why Myrta and Lucy would continue to use the much more common last name of "Holmes" in order to escape public attention.

Here's a web-page showing Lucy's passport info in 1918, when she went to Europe to do "war work": http://chicagogenealogy.blogspot.com...te-holmes.html

Even if Jeff Mudgett is a descendant, being descended in the female line I would expect him to have a different surname. Perhaps after doing his genealogical research he changed his own surname to his great-great-grandfather's original surname of "Mudgett"?

As for H.H. Holmes being Jack the Ripper, their respective crimes bear very little resemblance to each other; in fact they are quite different. And as Jon and Mike pointed out, in 1888 Holmes was busy working out his own sick fantasies in Chicago.

I'm not sure why anybody, least of all a descendant, would even want to try to claim Holmes was also the Ripper. Holmes is a fascinating case study all by himself, and much of his life and his crimes are still a mystery. I'd be more interested in reading a book that probed those mysteries, and told us how Holmes' wife and daughter dealt with their knowledge of his depravity. For instance, did his daughter even know the notorious killer was her father? Were stories passed down in the family? What about in the Mudgett side of the family? How did they react when they learned of the crimes?

Best regards,
Archaic

[The Good Michael]

H. H. Holmes as a Ripper suspect is another modern conjectural waste of time.

From the summer of 1888 through to the summer of 1890 Holmes was obsessed with the design, construction & supervision over the contractors building his house of horrors in Chicago.
At this point in Holmes's life this was his supreme focus. There is no room for speculating that he could or even would have left his pet project unsupervised to travel to London, England, for no related purpose.

Regards, Jon S.

He could have John, had he not been busy hiring and firing workers and cheating everyone he came into contact with out of money. There's
only so much evil a guy can do in a limited period of time while trying to get a good night's sleep as well.

Mike

[Wickerman]

H. H. Holmes as a Ripper suspect is another modern conjectural waste of time.

From the summer of 1888 through to the summer of 1890 Holmes was obsessed with the design, construction & supervision over the contractors building his house of horrors in Chicago.
At this point in Holmes's life this was his supreme focus. There is no room for speculating that he could or even would have left his pet project unsupervised to travel to London, England, for no related purpose.

Regards, Jon S.

[miss marple]

There are always people out to make a buck or two by jumping on the Jack bandwagon. Mudgett was worse than the Ripper, Leave him alone, Americans can be proud.
Libelling dead relatives who are already serial killers maybe bad form ,but libbelling dead relatives as serial killers who led perfectly respectable lives, in order to make a fast buck is despicable. I am thinking of the author of Uncle Jack.
As for famous people.... nough said

Miss Marple

[Ally]

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=3991&highlight=Holmes+Chicago

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=2675&highlight=Holmes+Chicago

[Heinrich]

It is highly improbable that the Whitechapel murders were done by a casual American visitor to London.

[alex_the_droog]

Found this link to a new book about H.H Holmes in which the author claims that HH( who is also his G G Grandfather) was the Ripper.

Not sure if this is a dubious attempt to sell books or not.

I know H.H.Holmes was rather committed rather depraved crimes, but i cant recall him being linked to the Ripper case. Also cant find anything on here.

thoughts

from hEll
Chris

http://www.businesswire.com/news/hom...veal-Identity?